Author Topic: The Immigration Debate: Adam Kokesh vs Stefan Molyneux  (Read 1384 times)

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marly qq

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The Immigration Debate: Adam Kokesh vs Stefan Molyneux
« on: January 09, 2018, 03:36:51 PM »
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Jan 6th 2018, 1hr 42min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdA76KBoK3k&t

Kokesh basically argues all of Molyneux's old talking points of Voluntarism, the state, the NAP, etc. against him here. Quite interesting to witness how different Molyneux responds to these arguments now compared to how in the past.

If you ever wanted to see early Molyneux debate post-2014 Molyneux this is may be as close as you'll get.

Weston Dupree

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Re: The Immigration Debate: Adam Kokesh vs Stefan Molyneux
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 07:55:36 PM »
+1
I watched most of it. It's disappointing to hear Adam keep praising Molyneux after the way that he's changed. Adam acts like Molyneux is still working to try to create a libertarian society and supporting Donald Trump is somehow his strategy of doing this. This makes little to no sense. Molyneux has clearly jumped the shark on anarcho-capitalism a long time ago.

Here are my thoughts on anarchists and immigration. Ever since I became a libertarian I was always a minarchist and never a supporter of "open borders." However, I have a lot more respect for ancaps that take a consistent position on immigration by supporting completely free immigration. This means supporting it right now with the way the world is at the moment. There's no way to reconcile the NAP as well as a lot of other anarchist talking points with government controlled immigration. I'd go as far as to say that self proclaimed anarchists that don't support open borders aren't really anarchists. This would include Rothbard, Hoppe, Bob Murphy, Lew Rockwell, etc.

money detonator

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Re: The Immigration Debate: Adam Kokesh vs Stefan Molyneux
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2018, 11:25:13 AM »
+2
I watched most of it. It's disappointing to hear Adam keep praising Molyneux after the way that he's changed. Adam acts like Molyneux is still working to try to create a libertarian society and supporting Donald Trump is somehow his strategy of doing this. This makes little to no sense. Molyneux has clearly jumped the shark on anarcho-capitalism a long time ago.

Here are my thoughts on anarchists and immigration. Ever since I became a libertarian I was always a minarchist and never a supporter of "open borders." However, I have a lot more respect for ancaps that take a consistent position on immigration by supporting completely free immigration. This means supporting it right now with the way the world is at the moment. There's no way to reconcile the NAP as well as a lot of other anarchist talking points with government controlled immigration. I'd go as far as to say that self proclaimed anarchists that don't support open borders aren't really anarchists. This would include Rothbard, Hoppe, Bob Murphy, Lew Rockwell, etc.

So, are you basically saying you liked Molyneux when he was in agreement with your views on immigration, anarchism, and politics in general, and now that he's not, you don't like him?

Anyone relying on Molyneux for consistent confirmation bias is going to get disappointed eventually.  He's provided plenty of evidence that he's about self-promotion, popularity, subscriber count and maximizing donation money.  With those priorities, he's not going to stay loyal to any ideology that doesn't serve his interests.  This probably doesn't bother Kokesh as much as you because he's playing the same game, and the "debate" podcast is self promotion for him too.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 11:54:50 AM by money detonator »

Weston Dupree

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Re: The Immigration Debate: Adam Kokesh vs Stefan Molyneux
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2018, 11:41:39 AM »
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Quote
So, are you basically saying you liked Molyneux when he was in agreement with your views on immigration, anarchism, and politics in general, and now that he's not, you don't like him?

???? I don't know what you're talking about.

Brainpolice2

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Re: The Immigration Debate: Adam Kokesh vs Stefan Molyneux
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2018, 11:33:02 PM »
+1
Kokesh is himself a pretty silly figure from the libertarian movement, a guy filled with weird drama from The Free State Project, who had a mock presidential run a few years ago. He got famous mostly by pulling stupid publicity stunts that were supposed to be edgy, and getting himself arrested for it. He's basically an ex-military type who eventually became one of the cartoonish "celebritarians". I remember when he was a nobody in the movement like the rest of us. He never was exactly a libertarian intellectual. Just an abrasive talking head with a bro vibe. He also got called out publically by his ex girlfriend for trying to bind her by contract to allow him to be what many would consider abusive. I'm sure Walter Block approves. Sanctity of contracts and all.

This isn't to defend Molyneux, but Kokesh isn't exactly the best person to be a counter to him, as a scandal-ridden celebritarian who is something of a meathead.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 12:00:43 AM by Brainpolice2 »