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General Category => Run wild => Topic started by: Lee Li on June 25, 2014, 10:31:05 PM

Title: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 25, 2014, 10:31:05 PM
What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)

I know what you're thinking, 'ugh, another thread about feminism'. Well, yeah. But I didn't want to post this in the other threads because it doesn't seem to be related enough. Nevertheless, I think this needs to be said because otherwise people will continue constantly projecting things onto me. I hope this helps future discussions. This has some profanity in it, but I will remove it if asked.

I am hardly unusual in my beliefs (most of them at least). So here's a bucket list of my feminist values, in no particular order. I have other values, but those are not the topic of this thread. They are mostly in plain English, as follows:

1. Women are human beings and as such deserve to be given equal respect, value, status, and most importantly, treated as people first. Legally, economically, and socially.
2. Women have the right to manage their pregnancies as they see fit, including with abortion and contraception, without anyone else's say-so.
3. I don't care how naked she was, her nakedness doesn't mean she was "asking for it". Nor does drunkenness or other excuses people make on a routine basis.
4. Catcalling, wolfwhistling, leering, stalking, honking your horn at a stranger on the street, shouting at a stranger on the street (be it from a vehicle or on foot), uninvited touching, comments, flashing of genitals, public and/or concealed masturbation, are harassment sometimes leading up to sexual molestation, and as such are wrong and I do not believe they should ever be tolerated, as they fall under the category of sexual harassment.
5. No means no, unless you've agreed upon a safe word instead; then the safe word is the no. And the no must be respected, always.
6. Sex that was gotten through manipulation or authority is of questionable consent at best.
7. No one is entitled to sex.
8. No one is entitled to anyone else's body.
9. We shall be allowed to do with our own bodies as we please, within reasonable limits of consent when others are involved.
10. Rape is never ever ever okay under any circumstances whatsoever, not even during war.
11. I don't know what to call this value. If a woman tells a strange man sitting in front of her to take his hand out of his pants, it's not her fault she was observant of his inappropriate public behavior. It's also ridiculous for onlookers to shame her instead of him and make her regret being assertive by saying, "Well omg why were you looking!" Omg don't be ridiculous!
12. Gender roles are arbitrarily defined cultural standards that define people based on their genitalia, effectively confining them to little boxes and forcing the people to conform. Gender roles are harmful to everyone, f*ck the roles. If you like conforming to them, that is your freedom, but the roles must not be imposed on others as roles. Instead we must have individual choices.
13.1. Patriarchy is the system which reinforces those said gender roles. Patriarchy is harmful to men, women, trans, gay, everyone.
13.2. I am rather critical of the whole marriage thing. I get the idea that it's rather common, but I could be wrong of course.
14. Not everyone conforms to my generalizations and I respect that.
15. It is hard to appropriately extrapolate anecdotal phenomena without relying upon known reliable theories. I don't create overarching theories on the basis of anecdotal evidence. Most feminists rely on research and sociology as well as history for their theories, even when inspired by their own experiences.
16. Sexism, in all forms, must be destroyed.
17. Sexual freedom. No imposition of sexual preferences on others. If you want to dress modest, abstain from sex, or whatever, you are free to do so but not free to impose those things on other people.
18. The right of transgender and transsexual people to be recognized by their preferred pronouns must be honored.
19. When I say women, I mean all women, no matter what color you are or sex you were born with, or anything else.
20. Queer rights tie into feminism tangentially but also in a deep way, because LGBTA people suffer under the heteronormative patriarchy.
21. If you are a transman with a uterus, reproductive rights of 'women' apply to you -- you are not to be excluded just for identifying as a man. The term 'women' is only used for convenience and because it applies to the majority of situations.
22. Everyone follows equal rules of consent, irrespective of their gender, sexual orientation, clothing, religion, or number of partners; there are no double standards, our consent shall be honored!
23. As said before, men suffer under patriarchal gender norms, and I recognize this as a problem. I acknowledge and have sympathy for the problems men experience, but when talking from a feminist standpoint I analyze those issues by talking about how the patriarchal society caused them.
24. I think men need to stay conscious of their privilege and how it affects them in daily life and interactions. This means doing some reflection, and learning to be sensitive about it. This does not mean attacking oneself or acting inferior (two wrongs don't make a right).
25. Misogyny can occur and have undesirable effects even when a woman is not immediately present.
26. Like other feminists, I believe it's wrong to harass people even when I disagree with them. That means it's wrong to bully, make threats, blackmail, or publish personal information. I say that because it's what misogynists do on a routine basis.
27. The victim is not at fault for the actions taken by the perpetrator. The perpetrator is responsible for their own actions.
28. I am against people using misogynistic language and will call them on it.
29. Women do not need to be labeled based on their sexual behavior (e.g. 'slut', 'prude', 'frigid', 'ho'), their demeanor, appearance, or obedience (or lack thereof) ('bitch', 'fat', 'cow', 'horse', 'slave', 'doll') and it is very misogynistic and dehumanizing to do so. The list could go on, but I'll spare you the details.
30. It is insidiously misogynistic to ascribe feminine labels to men ('bitch', 'pussy', 'girly', 'c*nt').
31. The main way I deal with all these problems is I talk about them.
32. I celebrate sex while opposing compulsory sex.

Those are things that make me typical as a feminist. There are some things that make me rather atypical, basically due to my politics, and just particular opinions not shared by all feminists:

1. I don't support people going to war.
2. I don't support the State. Although I agree with other feminists that women should have the right to vote and all the other legal equality stuff, I abstain from elections because I'm a Lib Soc.
3. I think many of the ills in society are caused by or worsened by Capitalism.
4. I don't place importance or hope in legislative reforms, except as a rather unlikely short term solution under statism.
5. There's nothing wrong with looking at naked people, in principle. But I think that pornography, at least the way it is presented in the mainstream, is harmful to developing sexuality and contributes to a culture of misogyny, objectification of women's bodies as a collection of parts instead of a whole person, and a perception of sex that is rather eerily disconnected from the real thing. It also hurts the people involved in it professionally, from the injuries and illnesses they sustain on the job (some of them so grotesque, that even thinking about them gives me chills).
6. I believe that capitalism is a serious problem in pornography and prostitution, like any other job, and the market forces that affect the culture. But in a special kind of way, perhaps -- or maybe not, depending on how the porn actor or prostitute feels about it.
7. Some may or may not agree, that hip hop can be divorced from its misogynistic tendencies. I think feminist and other conscientious hip hop is excellent and a force for cultural change.
8. Some may or may not agree with me on my valuing free love, open relationships, etc.
9. I am disgusted by chivalry. I expect most people don't care, so that's going here. To me it is just patriarchal and condescending.
10. I generally use gender-neutral pronouns to describe people rather than specify gender, unless for a specific reason, or if I know that person prefers a particular pronoun. Other feminists may or may not follow this convention, it is just my personal choice. Especially useful when you don't know the gender, or the person doesn't want to be called by any gender.
11. I don't know how other feminists feel about it (because it depends), but I think a movement made to solve men's issues is a good thing, as long as it isn't anti-feministic.


If it's not on the list, I probably don't believe it. I will update this list if necessary, as I may have forgotten some items.

Edit: After messing up the numbers, I created 13.1 and 13.2 because it is too late to fix them, then changed the second 31 to 32.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 25, 2014, 10:57:22 PM
Misogyny is used way too much with feminists.   Also you have two #13 and #31.

It's no wonder men like me and other men just don't want to deal with it.  Women changing their minds  after sex is wrong.  If a woman gives consent she can't claim it's rape after it has happen when she gives no indication she wants to stop.

Also there are some women who had sex with minors and these young boys have to pay child support.  It boggles my mind a boy that have been sexually molested forced to pay child support.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 25, 2014, 11:46:24 PM
oopsie.

Well, "Women changing their minds  after sex" is not "wrong". It's just regret.

Quote from: MikeTO
If a woman gives consent she can't claim it's rape
Correct.

And the issue is what?

Quote from: MikeTO
there are some women who had sex with minors and these young boys have to pay child support.  It boggles my mind a boy that have been sexually molested forced to pay child support.
Yes, that is wrong.

Quote from: MikeTO
Misogyny is used way too much with feminists.
  What?
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 26, 2014, 07:50:02 AM
2 assuming that woman is allowed to manage her pregnancy how about same rights for men?
I think it is unfair if woman can terminate pregnancy and man cannot do that and thus he must pay child support.

4 How "concealed masturbation" is infringing your rights? I don't mind if you masturbate in front of me. and i guess most of men don't mind it.

5 "no means no" will hurt a lot of women who expect that no means maybe I am sure you also don't want it to be that if I come to you ad offer you something you say no and I just say "screw you bitch" and leave.

7 I think you just hate sex.

10  you cannot tell what to do to criminals and during war. you are not some god. war has no rules and no respect for anyone. Soldiers will kill and rape whomever they want and do not care about what you want. saying that it is not okay is nothing different than saying hurricanes are not ok. so you either do something YOURSELF to stop those war crimes or shut up. 

11. I thought you were advocating that "We shall be allowed to do with our own bodies as we please"  so keeping hand in my pants is exactly doing with my body whatever i want.

15 why do you make claim "most feminists"  without providing appropriate evidence to support it? while demanding evidence from others when such claims are made.

17 contradicts with number 11

19 you are making generalization again

21 why "uterus" provides additional rights ?  why man with "uterus" has more rights than man without it?

22 religion is double standard by definition so your claim is self contradictory

24 I wonder what are those privileges for men.  I did not noticed any. in contrast I would gladly change my sex to female just to get all those benefits and privileges females have.
Juts imagine nobody can hit me(because there is no reason to hit a woman)  and I can hit anyone I will will all fights. and If I had good looking body I could advance in my carrier like crazy and I could have sex and get paid for it too.

26 unfortunately other feminists believe that it is entirely ok to harass those who do not agree with them and do that all time.

27 you incorrectly understand term "guilty" when it is used on victim.
If I leave my expensive car on the street with keys, in the high crime area, I am guilty for leaving it there.
in same way if woman provokes rapist she is guilty for being raped.
victim is guilty for not properly avoiding crime while perpetrator is guilty for crime itself.
when you leave you house you are supposed to lock your door if you forget that you are guilty for being robbed.

29 why do you care what words are used for sexual behavior?
does it make difference if we replace word "slut" with word "candy" if meaning will remain same?
problem is you own interpretation of those words.
instead of being ashamed of being slut be proud of it and advertise that to everyone. just like gays and queers turned derogatory words into official definitions.
in fact I think word "slut" is not even derogatory at all, because we all like sluts, that is then best kind of woman man can meet.
while if you are frigid men need some word to describe you for other men to not bother and just ignore you as if you do not exist because you are frigid and thus useless.
don't you think it will save lots of time for everyone if you are well known to say "no" to often we should just not waste our effort, and choose decent slut who says "yes".
--------------------

5 as a woman you do not understand that for a man initially you are nothing more than sexual object men do not care about your personality or anything else besides how good is your body, and nothing will change that.
You can be angelic girl or nastiest bitch this has no impact on men's sexual desire for you.

9 this is because you hate men or else you would see chivalry as good way to flirt with them. If I offer you to carry your luggage you have good excuse to bring me to your bed and have fun. or just start talking and become friends. instead of hating it how about responding in same way back? how about being nice to those who are nice to you.
But I guess that you just want to hate men and thus you hate when they do something good to you and make you indebted to do something good back.

Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Argent on June 26, 2014, 09:11:32 AM
To recap...

"no means no" will hurt a lot of women who expect that no means maybe

Soldiers will kill and rape whomever they want... so you either do something YOURSELF to stop those war crimes or shut up.

24 I wonder what are those privileges for men.  I did not noticed any.

If I leave my expensive car on the street with keys, in the high crime area, I am guilty for leaving it there.
in same way if woman provokes rapist she is guilty for being raped.

we all like sluts, that is then best kind of woman man can meet.

while if you are frigid... you are frigid and thus useless.

as a woman you do not understand that for a man initially you are nothing more than sexual object men do not care about your personality or anything else besides how good is your body, and nothing will change that.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 26, 2014, 10:41:06 AM
what is the purpose of that recap?

generally what I see in that post is just lots of demands of self entitlement and expectatiuons
that someone should implement all that.

however to tell the truth we are not required to treat them in any way. feminist woman is just empty space for a man, she simply does not exist as usable woman and not even worth interacting.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 26, 2014, 11:14:06 AM
Lol he thinks I'm a woman.

Please, go on, Omega! Tell me more about your lack of respect for women.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 26, 2014, 11:47:20 AM
Lowkey - I Believe (Lyrics in description) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyxGKextqyo#ws)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 26, 2014, 12:48:08 PM
This one goes out to all the players

Lowkey - Special (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_lYPzc1Stk#)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Argent on June 26, 2014, 01:53:03 PM
what is the purpose of that recap?
To highlight the parts of your long post that stood out to me, so that other people who might read this thread wouldn't miss them. The way some people do with Stefan's videos.

Question for you: if, in your view, women are merely sexual objects to be used or ignored, what are men?
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 26, 2014, 02:47:52 PM
Question for you: if, in your view, women are merely sexual objects to be used or ignored, what are men?
If you ask what are men for me personally, they are competitors I must defeat.

Talking about sex objects if you want to be something besides object you must socialize at first.
ad most important I must be interested in socialization too.
while if we talk about sex I do not care who it is as long as it looks good.

Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 26, 2014, 03:02:53 PM
Lol he thinks I'm a woman.

Please, go on, Omega! Tell me more about your lack of respect for women.

I do not lack respect for women, I lack respect for feminists who can only whine and cant do anything. those hypocrites who claim to be empowered and at same time demand to be protected from rapists war criminals and everything else.
My disrespect is not because I disagree with your ideas, but because you are worthless to implement them by yourself.  Feminists have no real power they are useless like cockroaches by themselves. 
I guess if some Nazis or religious fundamentalists came to rule they would beat all feminists into pulp without any resistance.
feminists are exactly the thing they despise themselves. weak powerless ans useless  who cant do anything without men.

How about dealing with rapist yourself if you are so powerful instead of asking men to help you?
But those "empowered" women cant even deal with pathetic losers who do not even use or have decent physical force.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 26, 2014, 04:53:15 PM
It's radical feminists propaganda. If you buy into their crap then you have lost your balls forever. :P
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 26, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
It's radical feminists propaganda. If you buy into their crap then you have lost your balls forever. :P
Real feminism is dead and obsolete, what we have now is just bunch of ugly worthless girls who demand state to be their husband provider and protector.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 26, 2014, 07:38:10 PM
Lol
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 26, 2014, 07:46:40 PM
It's radical feminists propaganda. If you buy into their crap then you have lost your balls forever. :P
Real feminism is dead and obsolete, what we have now is just bunch of ugly worthless girls who demand state to be their husband provider and protector.
So misogyny
Wow
/shibe
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 26, 2014, 08:04:29 PM
In truth radical feminist hate men.  Only that feminists like to spin it around making seem like it's the other way around.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 26, 2014, 08:07:35 PM
In truth radical feminist hate men.  Only that feminists like to spin it around making seem like it's the other way around.
I don't know what MikeTO means by radical feminist. I doubt he does either.

The title says typical feminist, get back on topic! ;D
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 26, 2014, 08:13:33 PM
In truth radical feminist hate men.  Only that feminists like to spin it around making seem like it's the other way around.
I don't know what MikeTO means by radical feminist. I doubt he does either.

The title says typical feminist, get back on topic! ;D

How about doing same what you always demand in your posts:
providing proper scientific statistic which describes what is that "typical feminist".
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 26, 2014, 08:17:35 PM
It's radical feminists propaganda. If you buy into their crap then you have lost your balls forever. :P
Real feminism is dead and obsolete, what we have now is just bunch of ugly worthless girls who demand state to be their husband provider and protector.
So misogyny
Wow
/shibe

Thats very feminist like
always repeat word "misoginy" because it is best argument against everything.
and also it attracts knights in shining armor to rescue poor damsel in distress form evil misogynists.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 26, 2014, 08:33:04 PM
It's radical feminists propaganda. If you buy into their crap then you have lost your balls forever. :P
Real feminism is dead and obsolete, what we have now is just bunch of ugly worthless girls who demand state to be their husband provider and protector.
So misogyny
Wow
/shibe

Thats very feminist like
always repeat word "misoginy" because it is best argument against everything.
and also it attracts knights in shining armor to rescue poor damsel in distress form evil misogynists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 26, 2014, 09:17:53 PM
It's radical feminists propaganda. If you buy into their crap then you have lost your balls forever. :P
Real feminism is dead and obsolete, what we have now is just bunch of ugly worthless girls who demand state to be their husband provider and protector.
So misogyny
Wow
/shibe

Thats very feminist like
always repeat word "misoginy" because it is best argument against everything.
and also it attracts knights in shining armor to rescue poor damsel in distress form evil misogynists.

That's all feminist have, the misoginy without any proof. :P
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Argent on June 26, 2014, 10:55:01 PM
I dunno about the misogyny thing... what's going on this forum seems more like wannabe misogyny to me. :P Like, "I am sexual beast--hear me roar!" It seems too ridiculously extreme to be heartfelt.

The scariest misogyny (to me) is the subtle stuff that runs through all of our minds (that's patriarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy) for you) and makes life more difficult for women in lots of little ways that don't necessarily ever become headline news. The same goes for all kinds of discrimination. It takes a brave person (male, female, whatever) to look for it inside themselves and actively work to root it out. Not sure if finger-pointing does much aside from getting people's backs up.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 26, 2014, 11:44:39 PM
It's radical feminists propaganda. If you buy into their crap then you have lost your balls forever. :P
Real feminism is dead and obsolete, what we have now is just bunch of ugly worthless girls who demand state to be their husband provider and protector.
So misogyny
Wow
/shibe

Thats very feminist like
always repeat word "misoginy" because it is best argument against everything.
and also it attracts knights in shining armor to rescue poor damsel in distress form evil misogynists.

That's all feminist have, the misoginy without any proof. :P

You are the proof, lol!
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 27, 2014, 12:16:37 AM
I dunno about the misogyny thing... what's going on this forum seems more like wannabe misogyny to me. :P Like, "I am sexual beast--hear me roar!" It seems too ridiculously extreme to be heartfelt.

The scariest misogyny (to me) is the subtle stuff that runs through all of our minds (that's patriarchy ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy[/url]) for you) and makes life more difficult for women in lots of little ways that don't necessarily ever become headline news. The same goes for all kinds of discrimination. It takes a brave person (male, female, whatever) to look for it inside themselves and actively work to root it out. Not sure if finger-pointing does much aside from getting people's backs up.


Sexual predator would be a more fitting phrase, imo.

I don't know if it's wannabe misogyny -- maybe you're right that it's just rare and extreme what we are seeing here...I don't know though. It seems some parts of the world and pockets in society are that way. As for what we see here, well I'm starting to suspect (sniff, sniff) that groups like AVFM are culty, and one thing we know about cults is that they push people into more extreme and outrageous beliefs. I don't have evidence, just a hunch.

I agree that the scariest misogyny is the subtle misogyny! That is the most challenging to confront, because it's hard to expose.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Argent on June 27, 2014, 12:32:26 AM
Sexual predator would be a more fitting phrase, imo.

Let's go with that. I don't know anything about the people who post here. Anything could be true about them as individuals. But in general, I wonder whether the people who are actually acting out sexual predation in the real world are self-aware to specifically seek out discussions about the topic on a message board.

I see a lot more extremely hateful stuff on the internet than I see in real life. Who knows what happens behind closed doors, though.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: King Schlong on June 27, 2014, 01:25:16 AM
2 assuming that woman is allowed to manage her pregnancy how about same rights for men?
I think it is unfair if woman can terminate pregnancy and man cannot do that and thus he must pay child support.


What about right of child?  Odds 50% being male child.  What about right of this male?

Who then support child?  What about their right?



Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 27, 2014, 03:09:16 AM
Sexual predator would be a more fitting phrase, imo.

 

I see a lot more extremely hateful stuff on the internet than I see in real life. Who knows what happens behind closed doors, though.

Most people don't have the guts to say what they really think in real life unless they are in groups.  In groups they will pretty much say anything but alone they don't say all that much.

Also there's so many can easily talk about sex online but in real life not too many can from my experience.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 27, 2014, 04:25:35 AM

What about right of child?  Odds 50% being male child.  What about right of this male?

Who then support child?  What about their right?
What difference it makes if it is male or female? it is not even child yet.

The idea is that if woman has right to escape motherhood while father has no such right and he will be forced to pay child support and ruin all his future. Especially considering the fact that modern abortion is just drinking one abortion pill, unlike it was some time ago, when woman had to endure nasty dangerous operation.

If we seek equality, either both man and woman has same rights to escape parenthood, or none of them have that right.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Verdire on June 27, 2014, 06:22:05 AM

What about right of child?  Odds 50% being male child.  What about right of this male?

Who then support child?  What about their right?

What difference it makes if it is male or female? it is not even child yet.

The idea is that if woman has right to escape motherhood while father has no such right and he will be forced to pay child support and ruin all his future. Especially considering the fact that modern abortion is just drinking one abortion pill, unlike it was some time ago, when woman had to endure nasty dangerous operation.

If we seek equality, either both man and woman has same rights to escape parenthood, or none of them have that right.


Why is it then that women are generally expected to handle the contraception side of things?

If men want to liberate themselves from the dangers of conceiving an unwanted child, then why isn't more effort being put into developing male contraceptives that can match the efficacy of the pill?

"The biological basis for male contraception was established decades ago, but despite promising breakthroughs and the financial burden men increasingly bear due to better enforcement of child support policies, no viable alternative to the condom has been brought to market. Men who wish to control their fertility must rely on female compliance with contraceptives, barrier methods, vasectomy or abstinence. Over the last 10 years, the pharmaceutical industry has abandoned most of its investment in the field, leaving only nonprofit organisations and public entities pursuing male contraception. Leading explanations are uncertain forecasts of market demand pitted against the need for critical investments to demonstrate the safety of existing candidate products. This paper explores the developments and challenges in male contraception research. We produce preliminary estimates of potential market size for a safe and effective male contraceptive based on available data to estimate the potential market for a novel male method."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23186401 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23186401)

^ We have to consider that research may have been halted due to a lack of clear market demand, which could reflect that by and large men don't actually want full control of their fertility. We can speculate about the reasons why not all day, but my initial impression (not that this speculation really has any worth) is this could have something to do with men not wanting to feel emasculated by being rendered temporarily infertile. If this is true, then it would reflect a double standard: where women are expected to conform to certain standards that men aren't held to. Do women worry about becoming "defeminated" when they go on the pill? Is this speculation just a load of pointless BS? It would be good to understand why funding has been cut and research halted.



"As recently as the 1990s, about 60 percent of research dollars were going to high-tech contraception for women while only 7 percent went to research on contraception for men."

http://jezebel.com/5347882/why-are-there-so-few-birth-control-options-for-men (http://jezebel.com/5347882/why-are-there-so-few-birth-control-options-for-men)

^ Keep in mind the first quote. That 7% has presumably plummeted to zero—despite apparent promising developments in the field.

EDIT: Edited some stuff to make this a bit more logical/empirical.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: King Schlong on June 27, 2014, 06:53:37 AM

What about right of child?  Odds 50% being male child.  What about right of this male?

Who then support child?  What about their right?
What difference it makes if it is male or female? it is not even child yet.

The idea is that if woman has right to escape motherhood while father has no such right and he will be forced to pay child support and ruin all his future. Especially considering the fact that modern abortion is just drinking one abortion pill, unlike it was some time ago, when woman had to endure nasty dangerous operation.

If we seek equality, either both man and woman has same rights to escape parenthood, or none of them have that right.

Miss point.

1. What about right of child once born
2. Taxpayer not father or mother of child.  Why then have to pay when parents refuse?

Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: King Schlong on June 27, 2014, 06:57:19 AM

What about right of child?  Odds 50% being male child.  What about right of this male?

Who then support child?  What about their right?

The idea is that if woman has right to escape motherhood while father has no such right and he will be forced to pay child support and ruin all his future.


Solution simple.  Visit brothel.


Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Argent on June 27, 2014, 09:04:53 AM
The idea is that if woman has right to escape motherhood while father has no such right and he will be forced to pay child support and ruin all his future. Especially considering the fact that modern abortion is just drinking one abortion pill, unlike it was some time ago, when woman had to endure nasty dangerous operation.

If we seek equality, either both man and woman has same rights to escape parenthood, or none of them have that right.

From a risk perspective: the risk of ending up paying child support due to one casual fling are pretty low, especially if you took precautions.

If someone's goal is to have casual sex every weekend, then yes, the risk of unintended pregnancy mounts. Again from the risk perspective though, there are other serious consequences you're more likely to reach first.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm)
http://www.ashasexualhealth.org/std-sti/std-statistics.html (http://www.ashasexualhealth.org/std-sti/std-statistics.html)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Prodigal son on June 27, 2014, 09:50:18 AM
2. Taxpayer not father or mother of child.  Why then have to pay when parents refuse?

If we assume (correctly I think) parents to own their children until they become self-sufficient, then it is hard not to arrive at the conclusion that either parent, acting singly or in concert, can kill them if they so choose. And before any lurking TB opens a sad face thread at the compound, I do not consider this to be anything other than a worst possible case that would constitute the most tragic and undesirable outcome (because killing and harming are morally wrong). However, in even quite recent times in Europe people living in more isolated communities would practice this periodically. A large family unable to feed yet another babe, or a child born with obvious deformities, might have been killed or simply not fed after birth in order to protect the integrity of the family unit against potentially life-threatening food shortages. I would classify abortion under the same heading. It is simply sanitized child killing. In today's world men sometimes kill their children too, invariably taking their own life at the same time, but it is actually their intrinsic right to act in this manner, as it is the right of the mother, however hard to stomach that fact may be. To remove or restrict that right parental authority must be replaced by State authority (as far as it can be brought to bear), but we have to remember that the State is the biggest killer of them all so we are not safe in its hands. Apart from war and wotnot, large numbers of children removed from their unmarried mothers due to religious codes or abandoned due to financial hardship have ended up in institutions that practice ritual abuse, paedophilia and infanticide - a truth that is only now beginning to emerge with much wringing of hands, and yet the practices continue wherever they can flourish undetected.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 27, 2014, 11:30:08 AM
Solution simple.  Visit brothel.
This is irrelevant, because my point is that women have power to enslave man while man does not have such power. What is serious inequality.

Miss point.
1. What about right of child once born
2. Taxpayer not father or mother of child.  Why then have to pay when parents refuse?
this is completely different issue from deciding if you will have child or not before it is born.

I believe that if you already took responsibility for someone you cant get rid of it anymore.
Parents are required to take care of their child in a way the can.
I cant tell exactly what to do if they refuse but I guess there must be appropriate penalty.

If my opinion is interesting I can also say that I agree that government must provide some minimal child support for those who need or euthanize those people (considering that later option is generally unacceptable there is no other choice than provides upport) it however it must ensure that neither mother or father gets any benefit from that support, let mother starve while her child is well fed she must feel all consequences of her choice.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 27, 2014, 12:01:11 PM
From a risk perspective: the risk of ending up paying child support due to one casual fling are pretty low, especially if you took precautions.

If someone's goal is to have casual sex every weekend, then yes, the risk of unintended pregnancy mounts. Again from the risk perspective though, there are other serious consequences you're more likely to reach first.


You described different issue: while it is very unlikely to have pregnancy problems because of casual encounter, planned pregnancy is way more probable scam.

while I cant provide appropriate statistic but "failed" birth control seem to be pretty frequent
Wikipedia provides 10% failure rate for birth control pills while perfect use rate is 0.3%
I don't know how we can be sure if that failure was intentional or accidental.

women who are desperate to marry or have a child may resort to some method to trick man into becoming father, especially if that woman is well established and independent she get pretty much benefits from such scam she ca just pretend to have casual sex and suddenly you end up in the court for child support.
Also if man is rich and woman is poor she also benefits greatly  from such scam.

Just imagine if there is a woman who is getting close to her expiration date and she desperately wants to have family, what are her options?

we have stories about women who do great things to trick man into believing that she is infertile or that she is under birth control just to make him stop using condoms and get her pregnant.
Because of that, man should have right to refuse fatherhood until child is born.

Until this is solved it is recommended for every man to use condom all time with all women including your wife or girlfriend, and expecialy if that women ever mentioned that she wants kids with you.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 27, 2014, 08:14:20 PM
Quote from: Omega
Until this is solved it is recommended for every man to use condom all time with all women including your wife or girlfriend, and expecialy if that women ever mentioned that she wants kids with you.

I'm a proponent of male birth control because equality and independence.

And while I commend the effort to use contraception, I also notice that the way you phrase your sentence implies a significant level of mistrust of women. As if no woman is ever ever to be trusted, just because she is a biological woman.

Which is one of the qualifying symptoms of misogyny.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: King Schlong on June 27, 2014, 10:29:03 PM
Solution simple.  Visit brothel.
This is irrelevant, because my point is that women have power to enslave man while man does not have such power. What is serious inequality.
Quit whining.  Whole point of Brothel.  Worry free sex without bond.
Quote
Miss point.
1. What about right of child once born
2. Taxpayer not father or mother of child.  Why then have to pay when parents refuse?
this is completely different issue from deciding if you will have child or not before it is born.
You the one bring up child support in first place.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 28, 2014, 04:19:42 AM
Quote
Quit whining.  Whole point of Brothel.  Worry free sex without bond.
so you suggest that all women are prostitutes and there cant be free sex?
either I must bond with them or pay them money.

Quote
You the one bring up child support in first place.
I said nothing about child support, I mentioned rights to refuse being father of UNBORN child.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: King Schlong on June 28, 2014, 04:37:17 AM
Quote
Quit whining.  Whole point of Brothel.  Worry free sex without bond.
so you suggest that all women are prostitutes and there cant be free sex?
either I must bond with them or pay them money.
Nope.

Quote
You the one bring up child support in first place.
I said nothing about child support, I mentioned rights to refuse being father of UNBORN child.

2 assuming that woman is allowed to manage her pregnancy how about same rights for men?
I think it is unfair if woman can terminate pregnancy and man cannot do that and thus he must pay child support.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 28, 2014, 05:01:46 AM
Quote from: Omega
Until this is solved it is recommended for every man to use condom all time with all women including your wife or girlfriend, and expecialy if that women ever mentioned that she wants kids with you.

I'm a proponent of male birth control because equality and independence.

And while I commend the effort to use contraception, I also notice that the way you phrase your sentence implies a significant level of mistrust of women. As if no woman is ever ever to be trusted, just because she is a biological woman.

Which is one of the qualifying symptoms of misogyny.

No this is what qualifies or your women worship. You seem to have same problems as UPB from Stefan Molyneyux who asumes that all people are good
You asume that women can do noting wrong and they are always good thus they must be always trusted.
Yes I have very severe mistrust for women but it is not any different than distrust for men.

laws provide good opportunity for women to enslave men and naturally women use that opportunity. If men had opportunity to enslave woman they would behave in same way.
We have good example in Islamic states where men abuse their rights against women just like western women abuse their rights against men.

while number of such women who perform this kind of scam can be low you must mistrust all women because you don't know which one exactly will do that.
Considering fact that results of failure are equivalent to death sentence  men must be extra careful.



Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 28, 2014, 05:06:42 AM
Nope.
then what is exactly your point?
I just want free sex without any bonds and commitments.


2 assuming that woman is allowed to manage her pregnancy how about same rights for men?
I think it is unfair if woman can terminate pregnancy and man cannot do that and thus he must pay child support.

child support is consequence of inability to terminate unwanted pregnancy.
I do not question child support itself here.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Verdire on June 28, 2014, 08:14:24 AM
let mother starve while her child is well fed she must feel all consequences of her choice.

Wait a second, I'm not going to let that one just roll under the radar.

So you're saying that she MUST starve in order for society to progress? Think about that for a second. Are you saying that the starvation of women is necessary for your revolution to happen?

Out of curiosity, do you believe in the death penalty?
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 28, 2014, 09:59:08 AM
If you can't admit that there is something wrong with misogyny, with being a misogynist, Omega, then we have nothing further to discuss.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 28, 2014, 10:09:24 AM
If you can't admit that there is something wrong with misogyny, with being a misogynist, Omega, then we have nothing further to discuss.

you newer had anything to discuss with anyone because all your "argument" is attempt to guilt everyone into that misogyny nonsense
Poor women who are innocent angelic creatures are so oppressed, their life is so miserable and men are guilty for all that.

Anyway recommend you to invent another word besides misogyny, because I "hate" feminists not women. just because I hate Nazis it does not mean that I hate all people on earth

Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 28, 2014, 10:28:18 AM
Wait a second, I'm not going to let that one just roll under the radar.

So you're saying that she MUST starve in order for society to progress? Think about that for a second. Are you saying that the starvation of women is necessary for your revolution to happen?

Out of curiosity, do you believe in the death penalty?
Nobody will die of starvation nowadays she can take food out of trash cans or get job as some maid who works for food and shelter.
I just believe that if you make conscious choice knowing what will happen you must face those consequences without any support from society. It is not any kind of punishment but simple responsibility of your choices.
If you deliberately burn your house I will not help you to rebuild it, because by act of burning your house you declared that you desire to be homeless.

talking about death penalty I am against it because death is not penalty, it is end of existence
You cannot punish anyone with death because nobody can feel detah.
death penality should be renamed into liquidation which shoud be only performed with a purpose to prevent that criminal from committing more seriuos crimes. If there is no danger that it will happen there is no justification to kill that person.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 28, 2014, 10:30:25 PM
MikeTO, for the record all I was saying is that the freaky fringe of the manosphere is not hard to find, nor is it hidden -- it's so easy to find, so commonplace, that I don't think it's a fringe at all.

You don't need to do a whole lot of research about stuff that is so obvious, especially if every time I reveal I'm a feminist the 'fringe' inevitably walks up to me and says hello. ([url]http://www.fdrliberated.com/forum/index.php?topic=790.msg9869#msg9869[/url]) That's not at all uncommon; if you can't take my word for it, then just go read some manospheric forums, or Paul Elam, or Warren Farrell himself.

At least this is on topic insofar as we're debating the existence of a lunatic fringe and whether or not there are cults in the manosphere.


I had problems with feminism long before I read about any articles.  I have seen and heard how men are treated and the problems feminism have caused.

Also it the 3rd wave feminists are being violent and  aggressive.  I normally don't read men's right issues until feminist shove their propaganda  down my throat.  So you're just making me turn to MRA a lot more because your lack of respect for men's issues.       Feminist wants equal rights yet when men want to speak out it's hate speech, support rape, etc.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   


What? I have no idea what you are talking about, really. Why don't you come over here and further the discussion where it is on topic. Plenty of men, MRA and non-MRA alike, have done terrible things to both women and feminists, so don't even go there. What exactly has feminism done to oppress men?
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Kaz on June 29, 2014, 01:16:18 AM
Are you aware of the irony of your choice of avatar, MikeTO?

(http://respectwomen.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/kurt-cobain1.png)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 29, 2014, 03:42:38 AM
This is what you guys are aligning yourself with: http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412 (http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 05:32:16 AM
This is what you guys are aligning yourself with: [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url] ([url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url])


Erin Pizzy started the First violence Domestic shelter so what's your point?
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 29, 2014, 05:41:58 AM
This is what you guys are aligning yourself with: [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url] ([url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url])


Erin Pizzy started the First violence Domestic shelter so what's your point?


Erin Pizzy eh? Read this http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/antifeminist-dv-guru-erin-pizzey-if-you-are-not-in-fear-of-your-life-you-are-not-suffering-from-domestic-violence/ (http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/antifeminist-dv-guru-erin-pizzey-if-you-are-not-in-fear-of-your-life-you-are-not-suffering-from-domestic-violence/)

My point is that, to start with, you people are associating yourselves with people who laugh at a father worried about his son getting raped, and focused their whole convention on hating feminism.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 29, 2014, 06:01:48 AM
http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3 (http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3)

So apparently, 40 percent of mass murders are acted upon women exclusively.

Barbara Kay was evidently blind to this and many other injustices, yet she had a place in the convention on men's rights. What?

Read the above link for a thorough criticism of her hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 06:24:50 AM
This is what you guys are aligning yourself with: [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url] ([url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url])


Erin Pizzy started the First violence Domestic shelter so what's your point?


Erin Pizzy eh? Read this [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/antifeminist-dv-guru-erin-pizzey-if-you-are-not-in-fear-of-your-life-you-are-not-suffering-from-domestic-violence/[/url] ([url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/antifeminist-dv-guru-erin-pizzey-if-you-are-not-in-fear-of-your-life-you-are-not-suffering-from-domestic-violence/[/url])

My point is that, to start with, you people are associating yourselves with people who laugh at a father worried about his son getting raped, and focused their whole convention on hating feminism.


There is some misquotes unless the article was changed.  So I can't even take the article seriously. 
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 06:25:48 AM
[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url] ([url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url])

So apparently, 40 percent of mass murders are acted upon women exclusively.

Barbara Kay was evidently blind to this and many other injustices, yet she had a place in the convention on men's rights. What?

Read the above link for a thorough criticism of her hypocrisy.



Forty percent?  Where is your source and from whom?
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 06:38:53 AM
That may be due, at least in part, to an American myth about "female virtue," as Patricia Pearson hypothesizes in her book, When She Was Bad: How and Why Women Get Away With Murder. Pearson points out that while people in general tend to view women as non-aggressive, in fact, "women commit the majority of child homicides in the United States, a greater share of physical child abuse, an equal rate of sibling violence and assaults on the elderly, about a quarter of child sexual abuse, an overwhelming share of the killing of newborns, and a fair preponderance of spousal assaults."

In short, the way a culture defines gender and violence has an impact on how well the phenomenon is studied in females.  In American society, young females are routinely regarded as "less criminal" than young males, and their crimes less serious.  Former FBI special agent Gregg McCrary says he has observed this bias and its effect. "We have an overall sense that females are the nurturers in society and males the combatants," he said.  "We carry that stereotype into our perceptions and fail to see that women are equally capable of aggression."



http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/female_mass_murderer/4.html (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/female_mass_murderer/4.html)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 07:29:53 AM
Researcher Says Women's Initiation of Domestic Violence Predicts Risk to Women

How can we prevent Intimate Partner Violence and injury to women? IPV researcher Deborah Capaldi, Ph.D., a social scientist at the Oregon Social Learning Center, finds that the best way for women to be safe is to not initiate violence against their male partners.

Dr. Capaldi's research examined the different relationship violence scenarios -- violence by him only, violence by her only, violence by both with him initiating, and violence by both with her initiating. Of these, the most likely to result in future injury to women is when she initiates violence against him and he responds, although both mutually aggressive groups were close in danger levels.

Dr. Capaldi notes that in a study of women who were in a battered women's shelter, "67% of the women reported severe violence toward their partner in the past year." Others in the domestic violence field, including Erin Pizzey, founder of the first battered women's shelter in England in the early 1970s, have had similar findings.

As a general rule, men tend to underreport both their violence against their female partners and their female partners' violence against them. By contrast, women tend to over-report both the men's violence against them and their own violence. The couples in the study were also given tasks by the study's monitors, such as planning a party or discussing a problem with their partner, and were filmed and observed by the OYS during those tasks.

As in many studies of IPV, the OYS found that much IPV is bidirectional (meaning both are violent), and in unidirectional abusive relationships, the women were more likely to be abusive than the men.

Dr. Capaldi believes that current IPV programs are putting women in harm's way. She says current batterer treatment programs are "ineffective... likely because they are not based on well-conducted research." She explains:

"Since much IPV is mutual and women as well as men initiate IPV, prevention and treatment approaches should attempt to reduce women's violence as well as men's violence. Such an approach has a much higher chance of increasing women's safety."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-sacks/researcher-says-womens-in_b_222746.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-sacks/researcher-says-womens-in_b_222746.html)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: phlogiston on June 29, 2014, 07:45:36 AM
 Just read this as my girlfriend was railing on me. I have a new insight. My mother hit me all the time and my Dad hit me when my Mom told him to. My Brother was blamed for breaking her finger by defending himself. My Neighbor was blamed for breaking his father's foot on his ass. That kid is homeless now. The only argument against feminism that I see having any bearing is that against their sons. Any other argument is against the government. I think I have made it plain that fathers are just as bad.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 08:31:59 AM
Female violience towards females except on where it's males and females attacking on female.  Women can be just as violent as males.  In fact in one video a woman face is badly beaten.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-1gnyZ9Rdc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-1gnyZ9Rdc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsDAyVEdtnA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsDAyVEdtnA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RNJfVMkhI8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RNJfVMkhI8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8JfWJmT7a0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8JfWJmT7a0)



One of the things that was a no-brainer when we bought this company was males 18-34. We created the Ultimate Fighter for males, everything, this whole thing was created for males and we never saw how many women would get into this. Probably 45-percent of our fanbase is now female. There was just a story done by Fox where girls were taking girls-trips to Vegas for fights. Whenever you go to any of the big fights, there's girls there with their husbands or their boyfriends or whatever but there's a lot of girls there either by themselves or with friends. It's been amazing how fast our female fanbase has grown. We didn't see that coming."

http://www.mmamania.com/2011/7/19/2283204/dana-white-and-rampage-jackson-comment-on-the-growth-of-female-mma (http://www.mmamania.com/2011/7/19/2283204/dana-white-and-rampage-jackson-comment-on-the-growth-of-female-mma)



It's weird almost half of the fans are women.  If women are against violence why are they promoting and watching a violent sport?  If you doubt UFC is violent here's a youtube video to prove otherwise.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woAQfOdgRdc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woAQfOdgRdc)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: King Schlong on June 29, 2014, 11:33:27 AM
Nope.
then what is exactly your point?
I just want free sex without any bonds and commitments.


2 assuming that woman is allowed to manage her pregnancy how about same rights for men?
I think it is unfair if woman can terminate pregnancy and man cannot do that and thus he must pay child support.

child support is consequence of inability to terminate unwanted pregnancy.
I do not question child support itself here.

No such thing as free lunch.  First rule of economics.

Everything have price.  This make you cry like baby.  You the one with entitlement.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 29, 2014, 12:01:03 PM
No such thing as free lunch.  First rule of economics.
so you confirm that sex is just service provided by women for certain cost?

Quote
Everything have price.  This make you cry like baby.  You the one with entitlement.
Not everything: if we look from opposite direction women can have as much free sex as they want men even pay them so same thing they have top pay themselves.

I do not cry for anything I cant change fact that women are mostly whores who only engage in sexual activities to get paid in some way (according to your statement you agree to that) it does not matter if payment is love or money it is still payment
All i can do is to say to all those whore go and f*ck yourself because I will not pay you anything.

if some woman who can enjoy relationship without any commitment or other form of payment comes i will gladly accept her.

Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 29, 2014, 12:12:05 PM
[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url] ([url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url])

So apparently, 40 percent of mass murders are acted upon women exclusively.

Barbara Kay was evidently blind to this and many other injustices, yet she had a place in the convention on men's rights. What?

Read the above link for a thorough criticism of her hypocrisy.



Forty percent?  Where is your source and from whom?
This is what you guys are aligning yourself with: [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url] ([url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url])


Erin Pizzy started the First violence Domestic shelter so what's your point?


Erin Pizzy eh? Read this [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/antifeminist-dv-guru-erin-pizzey-if-you-are-not-in-fear-of-your-life-you-are-not-suffering-from-domestic-violence/[/url] ([url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/antifeminist-dv-guru-erin-pizzey-if-you-are-not-in-fear-of-your-life-you-are-not-suffering-from-domestic-violence/[/url])

My point is that, to start with, you people are associating yourselves with people who laugh at a father worried about his son getting raped, and focused their whole convention on hating feminism.


There is some misquotes unless the article was changed.  So I can't even take the article seriously.


Can you explain why you think there are misquotes?

And if you read the post http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3 (http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3)
Then you would have noticed that the source is a sociologist named Eric Hickley. Doesn't seem like you read it at all.

And I was talking about men mass murdering women. The Elliott Roger incident wasn't a fluke. I don't see what you're trying to say with that other research you pasted.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 29, 2014, 12:20:38 PM
I do not cry for anything I cant change fact that women are mostly whores who only engage in sexual activities to get paid in some way

Omega......you should get some psychological help. It's not even funny anymore.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 12:59:59 PM
[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url] ([url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url])

So apparently, 40 percent of mass murders are acted upon women exclusively.

Barbara Kay was evidently blind to this and many other injustices, yet she had a place in the convention on men's rights. What?

Read the above link for a thorough criticism of her hypocrisy.



Forty percent?  Where is your source and from whom?
This is what you guys are aligning yourself with: [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url] ([url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url])


Erin Pizzy started the First violence Domestic shelter so what's your point?


Erin Pizzy eh? Read this [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/antifeminist-dv-guru-erin-pizzey-if-you-are-not-in-fear-of-your-life-you-are-not-suffering-from-domestic-violence/[/url] ([url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/antifeminist-dv-guru-erin-pizzey-if-you-are-not-in-fear-of-your-life-you-are-not-suffering-from-domestic-violence/[/url])

My point is that, to start with, you people are associating yourselves with people who laugh at a father worried about his son getting raped, and focused their whole convention on hating feminism.


There is some misquotes unless the article was changed.  So I can't even take the article seriously.


Can you explain why you think there are misquotes?

And if you read the post [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url] ([url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url])
Then you would have noticed that the source is a sociologist named Eric Hickley. Doesn't seem like you read it at all.

And I was talking about men mass murdering women. The Elliott Roger incident wasn't a fluke. I don't see what you're trying to say with that other research you pasted.


Elliot killed more men than women so what's your point?  Violence is not gender related.  This is why men need a support system so guys like Elliot could get help.  If he had other guys that he could talk to that can related to him the killing might have taken place.





To study the potential differences that distinguish homicides involving women as victims or offenders from those involving men, we analyzed Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform Crime Reports data on homicides that occurred in the United States between 1976 and 1987. Only cases that involved victims aged 15 years or older were included. Persons killed during law enforcement activity and cases in which the victim's gender was not recorded were excluded. A total of 215,273 homicides were studied, 77% of which involved male victims and 23% female victims. Although the overall risk of homicide for women was substantially lower than that of men (rate ratio [RR] = 0.27), their risk of being killed by a spouse or intimate acquaintance was higher (RR = 1.23). In contrast to men, the killing of a woman by a stranger was rare (RR = 0.18). More than twice as many women were shot and killed by their husband or intimate acquaintance than were murdered by strangers using guns, knives, or any other means. Although women comprise more than half the U.S. population, they committed only 14.7% of the homicides noted during the study interval. In contrast to men, who killed nonintimate acquaintances, strangers, or victims of undetermined relationship in 80% of cases, women killed their spouse, an intimate acquaintance, or a family member in 60% of cases. When men killed with a gun, they most commonly shot a stranger or a non-family acquaintance.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1635092 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1635092)

See men are more of victims of violence then women so why aren't feminist concerned for men if they claim equal rights?
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 29, 2014, 01:01:10 PM
Omega......you should get some psychological help. It's not even funny anymore.

Better go back to you suffering Olympic which is extremely important argument to prove who is more violent and who suffers  more.


I guess we should also extend that statistic to black people because it is well knows that black people commit more crimes than white and thus we must pass laws that in case of dispute white guy is always right, just as we do with women today when woman is always right in fight with man.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 29, 2014, 01:05:42 PM
See men are more of victims of violence then women so why aren't feminist concerned for men if they claim equal rights?

Good luck getting that answer. None of feminists ever cared about rights of men.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 01:13:21 PM
Kids Behaving Badly? Blame It on Mom

All little kids can be aggressive, but those who remain explosive by the time they enter kindergarten have their mothers to blame, according to new research published Wednesday in the journal Child Development.

Childhood aggression — hitting, for example, or throwing frequent tantrums — has been associated with problems in school, depression, drinking and, down the road, aggressive behavior toward a spouse.

In the average American family, aggression is often modeled by parents. Lorber’s research group has found that more than 70% of moms and dads hit or spank their children. But that’s not the point of this particular study, which subjected 7-to-10-day-old babies to a neurological exam that included pinpricks and cold objects placed against their skin. The infants’ reaction to the annoying sensations determined their baseline level of “neonatal difficulty.” Then, when the infants were 3 and 6 months old, researchers asked mothers about their babies’ temperament. At the same time, they observed the mothers feeding their children, noting whether the women acted affectionate or irritated.

Later, at 24 and 42 months, the mothers were observed assisting the children with extracting objects from a tube. Finally, when the children were in kindergarten or first grade, mothers and teachers each rated the children’s behavior.

The biggest predictor of sustained hostility? Negative parenting at three and six months. “Nothing about the child’s behavior in infancy predicted anything,” says Lorber. “But we did find that negative parenting in infancy was really important.”
So what to do? For starters, don’t beat yourself up (figuratively speaking, of course) if you’re a mom of a rambunctious grade-schooler. It’s likely that mother-infant interaction isn’t the only factor at play here. Genetics is probably influencing behavior as well.

Second, be nice to your kids. “Our research suggests you need to start really early,” says Lorber. “Being a sensitive parent and responding to your baby’s social and emotional needs is always a good thing.”
http://healthland.time.com/2011/10/26/kids-behaving-badly-blame-it-on-mom/ (http://healthland.time.com/2011/10/26/kids-behaving-badly-blame-it-on-mom/)



If you want to men not to be violent to women than women shouldn't spank their children because according to the study men who have been spanked as children are more likely to be violent.  So it's up to many women to stop the violence not men.  This would greatly reduce violence overall.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 01:15:25 PM
There are 22 international drug regulatory agency warnings of psychiatric drugs causing violence—including mania, psychosis, depersonalization, aggression and even homicidal ideation.  33 school shootings and/or school-related acts of violence have been committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs, six of which were stabbings, resulting in 164 wounded and 77 killed.  After reading the rambling manifesto, aptly titled “My Twisted World,” written by Elliot Rodgers, one thing becomes abundantly clear—mental health “treatment” was a major theme throughout his life and this included being prescribed psychiatric drugs.

http://www.cchrint.org/2014/05/26/will-lawmakers-investigate-elliot-rodgers-psychiatric-drug-use-or-ignore-it-that-is-the-question/ (http://www.cchrint.org/2014/05/26/will-lawmakers-investigate-elliot-rodgers-psychiatric-drug-use-or-ignore-it-that-is-the-question/)


So the way to reduce the number of some  murders is to  ban psychiatric drugs. 
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 29, 2014, 01:51:30 PM

Elliot killed more men than women so what's your point? 

See men are more of victims of violence then women so why aren't feminist concerned for men if they claim equal rights?

My point is that Barbara Kay is a hypocrite who says horrible things, and yet remains honored among the MRAs. That's the kind of crowd that it is. It's sick. Their values are obviously twisted.

I repeat, can you explain why you think there are misquotes on wehuntedthemammoth.com?

I'm not trying to have a pissing contest on who is more violent. It's about what Barbara SAID and the facts that she won't acknowledge that make her look ignorant and creepy, it's what she said that reveals her values and the values of the MRM. IF you read the Reddit post....
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 29, 2014, 02:11:36 PM
But since we're talking about who is more violent:

It's conventional wisdom already that men are more violent.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/men-more-violent1.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/men-more-violent1.htm)

If you need more data, head over to Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime)

My thesis on this matter is that men practice violence against other men and against women. IF men are victims of violence more often, that is perpetrated by other men.

Feminists ARE concerned about male violence and insist that patriarchal society is to blame. I would say that men are more violent because patriarchy expects men to fit the role of a 'tough', aggressive man who does not express his emotions in 'sissy' (seewatididther?) ways. Society bullies and chastises men who do not act aggressive and domineering because it is seen as feminine to be nice. A society that bullies men for being 'feminine' is a misogynistic one.

I think patriarchy mandates that men be aggressive and sexually exploitative. Just look at the gender differences in serial killers:

If you read more Eric W. Hickey, you'll find that he says men account for 90% of serial and mass murderers. Mass murderers are thought to be mentally unstable but male serial murderers are not found to have mental problems, and often get sexual pleasure from torturing, mutilating, and dehumanizing their victims, who are often female, though sometimes the targets are children and the elderly (e.g. Jack the Ripper) -- in the case of the less common female serial killers, the motivation is usually material gain or something, but not sexual.

Of course MRAs seem to always blame women for men's violence (http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/domestic-violence-industry/the-reason-men-are-more-violent-than-women/ (http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/domestic-violence-industry/the-reason-men-are-more-violent-than-women/)), and that is simply bizarre. WHY?

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/experiments-in-philosophy/201202/why-are-men-so-violent (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/experiments-in-philosophy/201202/why-are-men-so-violent)

Here's a short historical explanation of how our society may have become so patriarchal. Excerpt:

Quote from: article
This historical story can help to explain why men are more violent than women. The men who hold power will fight to keep it, and men who find themselves without economic resources feel entitled to acquire things by force if they see no other way. With these assumptions, we can dispense with the male warrior hypothesis, which is advanced by Melissa McDonald, Carlos Navarrete, and Mark Van Vugt, in the latest issue of Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society. These three psychologists imply that male violence is natural and inevitable, but all the evidence they offer can be explained by the simpler assumption that farming technologies allowed men co-opt power over the course of human history.

    The authors claim that men are more xenophobic than women, because they are wired to wage war. But this is also predicted on the historical account, because men control governments and handle foreign relations. It follows too that men start all wars.
    The authors contend that, compared to women, men prefer social dominance hierarchies, which testifies to their innately competitive nature. But this is easily explained on the social story: in male dominant societies, men gain from dominance hierarchies, and women lose.
    The authors note that men are more prone to cooperate when under threat than otherwise, which may suggest an instinct to form armies. But a simpler explanation is that, having obtained power, men are reluctant to cooperate except under pressure.
    The authors cite a disturbing study in which men endorse war after being primed with a picture of an attractive woman, which suggests that male violence has a sexual motive. But the link between sex and violence may derive from the fact that sex is often coercive in male dominant societies.
    The authors link the male warrior hypothesis to racism: white men, they say, show greater fear responses to pictures of black men, than do white women. But this is difficult to explain on any evolutionary hypothesis, since there would have been little ethnic diversity in our ancestral past. Racism is more readily linked to the social history of slavery, an industry run by men.
    The authors also remark that women become more racist at times of peak fertility, suggesting fear of impregnation by foreign invaders. A different explanation is that menstrual peaks also bring out strong emotions, which lets latent racism come to the fore.


Now here's a good organization dedicated to stopping the trend: http://www.menstoppingviolence.org/ (http://www.menstoppingviolence.org/)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 29, 2014, 04:20:42 PM
My thesis on this matter is that men practice violence against other men and against women. IF men are victims of violence more often, that is perpetrated by other men.

I completely agree with that this, however you seem top fail in understanding most important fact that this is definition of masculinity itself.
men are supposed to fight in some way, physical violence is just one of those ways which is outdated in modern world and practiced only by degenerates and losers.
However every true man is still not different from those stone age savages except that from using sticks we use modern science technology and everything we can use to express our dominance.
Instead of competing whose skull is tougher against stick, we compete in who will be first to find cure for cancer or who will build biggest base on the moon.

If women want to enter this battle zone it is great while if they want to turn every man into woman they will fail and destroy all society. as it will be simply destroyed by other men from other areas who still retain they masculine spirit.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 09:45:12 PM

Elliot killed more men than women so what's your point? 

See men are more of victims of violence then women so why aren't feminist concerned for men if they claim equal rights?

My point is that Barbara Kay is a hypocrite who says horrible things, and yet remains honored among the MRAs. That's the kind of crowd that it is. It's sick. Their values are obviously twisted.

I repeat, can you explain why you think there are misquotes on wehuntedthemammoth.com?

I'm not trying to have a pissing contest on who is more violent. It's about what Barbara SAID and the facts that she won't acknowledge that make her look ignorant and creepy, it's what she said that reveals her values and the values of the MRM. IF you read the Reddit post....

Now you are avoiding the issue.  You are blaming a person but you don't want to solve the issue.  The issue there's violence among people.  Men are victims are violent too so it's not a gender issue.  Don't men count?  Also a good number of women are violent to children more so with boys than girls so the cycle of violence can be greatly reduced.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 09:47:40 PM
[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url] ([url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url])

So apparently, 40 percent of mass murders are acted upon women exclusively.

Barbara Kay was evidently blind to this and many other injustices, yet she had a place in the convention on men's rights. What?




Read the above link for a thorough criticism of her hypocrisy.



Forty percent?  Where is your source and from whom?
This is what you guys are aligning yourself with: [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url] ([url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/the-chuckles-turned-to-guffaws-avfm-conference-saturday-wrapup/#more-12412[/url])


Erin Pizzy started the First violence Domestic shelter so what's your point?


Erin Pizzy eh? Read this [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/antifeminist-dv-guru-erin-pizzey-if-you-are-not-in-fear-of-your-life-you-are-not-suffering-from-domestic-violence/[/url] ([url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/28/antifeminist-dv-guru-erin-pizzey-if-you-are-not-in-fear-of-your-life-you-are-not-suffering-from-domestic-violence/[/url])

My point is that, to start with, you people are associating yourselves with people who laugh at a father worried about his son getting raped, and focused their whole convention on hating feminism.


There is some misquotes unless the article was changed.  So I can't even take the article seriously.


Can you explain why you think there are misquotes?

And if you read the post [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url] ([url]http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/29bri4/ladies_and_gentlemen_barbara_kay/cijdxw3[/url])
Then you would have noticed that the source is a sociologist named Eric Hickley. Doesn't seem like you read it at all.

And I was talking about men mass murdering women. The Elliott Roger incident wasn't a fluke. I don't see what you're trying to say with that other research you pasted.



What she was was drinking a little alcohol doesn't mean it's rape.  How intoxicated does it mean it's rape?  Sure if the person is tipsy or passed out that's rape.  If both parties are drunk why is the man that raped the woman?  Also there's women who regret and later change their mind and claim rape, that's not rape that's regret.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 29, 2014, 09:51:16 PM
Let's see feminist posting on twitter #killallmen.  So they want to use violence to end violence?  This isn't one person saying this.  Hundreds perhaps thousands.  Who know how many women think like this.

http://www.salon.com/2013/05/07/twitters_latest_unfunny_trend_killallmen/ (http://www.salon.com/2013/05/07/twitters_latest_unfunny_trend_killallmen/)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 30, 2014, 12:30:19 AM
But since we're talking about who is more violent:

It's conventional wisdom already that men are more violent.

[url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/men-more-violent1.htm[/url] ([url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/men-more-violent1.htm[/url])

If you need more data, head over to Wikipedia: [url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime[/url] ([url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime[/url])

My thesis on this matter is that men practice violence against other men and against women. IF men are victims of violence more often, that is perpetrated by other men.

Feminists ARE concerned about male violence and insist that patriarchal society is to blame. I would say that men are more violent because patriarchy expects men to fit the role of a 'tough', aggressive man who does not express his emotions in 'sissy' (seewatididther?) ways. Society bullies and chastises men who do not act aggressive and domineering because it is seen as feminine to be nice. A society that bullies men for being 'feminine' is a misogynistic one.

I think patriarchy mandates that men be aggressive and sexually exploitative. Just look at the gender differences in serial killers:

If you read more Eric W. Hickey, you'll find that he says men account for 90% of serial and mass murderers. Mass murderers are thought to be mentally unstable but male serial murderers are not found to have mental problems, and often get sexual pleasure from torturing, mutilating, and dehumanizing their victims, who are often female, though sometimes the targets are children and the elderly (e.g. Jack the Ripper) -- in the case of the less common female serial killers, the motivation is usually material gain or something, but not sexual.

Of course MRAs seem to always blame women for men's violence ([url]http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/domestic-violence-industry/the-reason-men-are-more-violent-than-women/[/url] ([url]http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/domestic-violence-industry/the-reason-men-are-more-violent-than-women/[/url])), and that is simply bizarre. WHY?

[url]http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/experiments-in-philosophy/201202/why-are-men-so-violent[/url] ([url]http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/experiments-in-philosophy/201202/why-are-men-so-violent[/url])

Here's a short historical explanation of how our society may have become so patriarchal. Excerpt:

Quote from: article
This historical story can help to explain why men are more violent than women. The men who hold power will fight to keep it, and men who find themselves without economic resources feel entitled to acquire things by force if they see no other way. With these assumptions, we can dispense with the male warrior hypothesis, which is advanced by Melissa McDonald, Carlos Navarrete, and Mark Van Vugt, in the latest issue of Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society. These three psychologists imply that male violence is natural and inevitable, but all the evidence they offer can be explained by the simpler assumption that farming technologies allowed men co-opt power over the course of human history.

    The authors claim that men are more xenophobic than women, because they are wired to wage war. But this is also predicted on the historical account, because men control governments and handle foreign relations. It follows too that men start all wars.
    The authors contend that, compared to women, men prefer social dominance hierarchies, which testifies to their innately competitive nature. But this is easily explained on the social story: in male dominant societies, men gain from dominance hierarchies, and women lose.
    The authors note that men are more prone to cooperate when under threat than otherwise, which may suggest an instinct to form armies. But a simpler explanation is that, having obtained power, men are reluctant to cooperate except under pressure.
    The authors cite a disturbing study in which men endorse war after being primed with a picture of an attractive woman, which suggests that male violence has a sexual motive. But the link between sex and violence may derive from the fact that sex is often coercive in male dominant societies.
    The authors link the male warrior hypothesis to racism: white men, they say, show greater fear responses to pictures of black men, than do white women. But this is difficult to explain on any evolutionary hypothesis, since there would have been little ethnic diversity in our ancestral past. Racism is more readily linked to the social history of slavery, an industry run by men.
    The authors also remark that women become more racist at times of peak fertility, suggesting fear of impregnation by foreign invaders. A different explanation is that menstrual peaks also bring out strong emotions, which lets latent racism come to the fore.


Now here's a good organization dedicated to stopping the trend: [url]http://www.menstoppingviolence.org/[/url] ([url]http://www.menstoppingviolence.org/[/url])


What you fail to realize adults are violent to children.  I said adults not women.  Yes there are more women who are who violent than men.  It's an adult issue but more women are violent toward children especially boys.  If feminism can't accept that fact and get women to stop hitting their children then the cycle of violence will continue.  It's purely scientific.  I'm not blaming women.  I'm asking women NOT to HIT their children PERIOD.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 30, 2014, 12:37:32 AM
According to the article you posted

To reduce male violence, it is not sufficient to reform men, as the defenders of the male warrior hypothesis recommend. Nor will it suffice to empower women. This will reduce domestic violence, but not war, because women can be as aggressive as men.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/experiments-in-philosophy/201202/why-are-men-so-violent (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/experiments-in-philosophy/201202/why-are-men-so-violent)
T
here you go your article proved women can be just as violent and are just as violent. 

You are blaming men, I'm proving a solution, there's a big difference. IMO
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 30, 2014, 03:16:01 AM
The definition of masculinity is not violence, dominance, or aggression. If it is, it is only this way under the patriarchal norms, and such social constructs are subject to change. It is a shitty norm; time to change it.

--

No MikeTO, it is not I who is being evasive. I brought this up in the first place, that there are people on AVFM staff or whatever, who utter nasty prejudicial, ignorant, and indeed hateful beliefs. Supposedly they are supposed to be the cream of the crop. THIS is who MRAs associate with. And I will keep pointing that out, because I can: because the nasty is so commonplace as to be ubiquitous. Which says everything about THEIR true values and motives. How can you have a 'human rights' movement with a heart this dark? No.

And if that doesn't satisfy, then go read Warren Farrell -- even just a browse through his wikiquotes will do. Mr. Farrell being the progenitor of all this, after all -- the inspiration for this cesspit of hate and regression. That's clearly what it is.

You are selectively reading, and it is not helping your arguments here. I certainly did share a link to an organization which has the mission of stopping violence. There are other organizations like that. I don't work at them. Would I? Yes, in a heartbeat.

It IS a gender issue that men are ENCOURAGED to be violent, and as such that gender role contributes to the higher incidence of violent crime. The way to fix that is to change the gender roles.

Women, especially moms, spend more time with their kids on average, so the rates of abuse will be higher. That doesn't say much. How often do fathers abuse their children relative to the time they spend with them? I could dig up the data on this, which would show that fathers are more frequently abusive despite spending less time with children because of work. Anyway, I don't see much use in these measurements other than that you are apparently trying to say that women are inherently bad or worse than men. Whereas I am pointing at a cause and saying what needs to change. The cycle of violence can be greatly reduced by doing what, you say? And of course as a former member of FDR, I was introduced to the idea af peaceful parenting and still support it to this day.

That whole #killallmen thing is a joke, as it turns out. And I thought it might have been when I first saw it. So yeah, I looked into it. It's sarcasm. In particular, they are trolling the MRAs. Feminists get tired as hell of defending feminism from its stereotypes, so sometimes they do little tongue-in-cheek things like create a banner that says "Keep Calm And Misander On". But apparently nobody thinks feminists have a sense of humor, lol.

Read this article so I don't have to paste-spam it:
http://news.yahoo.com/twitter-hashtag-probably-doesnt-prove-feminists-want-kill-213452909.html (http://news.yahoo.com/twitter-hashtag-probably-doesnt-prove-feminists-want-kill-213452909.html)

Don't like a joke you can't be a part of? As Jess Zimmerman tweeted: " About #killallmen…I'm not into that rhetoric, but what, does it make you feel threatened? Like your gender is a danger? JOIN THE CLUB"

The funny thing is that you linked this article which was written by a feminist, who is not much into that rhetoric either. And I can see why. And neither am I. I'm not really amused by it, either, but some people just like to do tit for tat. It's easy to want to take the piss when you are endlessly browbeaten and irritated by trollish MRAs.

And sir, you were saying that females of this species are just as violent as males. And I proved (and this is hardly a topic of debate) that they are not, in fact males are far more violent overall. As I said, this is not inherent to being male, but is instead a social condition subject to change.

The article says women CAN be violent, it doesn't prove that they are. That assertion is based on the sentence succeeding it: "Warfare did not decline precipitously with women's suffrage, and during recent conflicts with Russia, 43 percent of Chechen suicide bombers have been women." Read the FULL article. "Men perpetrate about 90 percent of the world's homicides and start all of the wars," it says. The author's solution? "Crucially, we must reduce the incentives for violence."
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on June 30, 2014, 04:23:44 AM
The definition of masculinity is not violence, dominance, or aggression. If it is, it is only this way under the patriarchal norms, and such social constructs are subject to change. It is a shitty norm; time to change it.

You cant change what is defined by nature, men will always seek domination because that is encoded genetically. They are not social constructs. all males in most species exhibit same traits and humans are pretty calm in that regard.
and it is just your opinion that it must change, because domination is meaning of life for most men and it is not that they will let it go because some woman wants that.

Just for sake of argument least ate least provide your definition of masculinity to give that word some form of meaning, because If you remove domination there is no masculinity left all we have is females with vaginas and females with penises.
If you exclude domination you make masculinity nonexistant.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 30, 2014, 07:17:56 AM
Would you be pissed off if you were allowed to see your children no good reason.  Lose everything you worked and left broke.  Many of them were thinking sudicide be they were isolated.  You simply don't get it.  It's women who pushed men to the limit that's how MRA was born.  It wasn't born out of hatred.


I do understand someone what Paul Elam say things he shouldn't.  I was at an MRA forums that doesn't agree with AFVM.  It's feminism.  Also violence was matter of surivial, before agriculture there was that much grains like we have now.  Man need to hunt and kill for food which is very violent.

Here is a a suggestion go hunting see now and image with simple tools how violent you need to be.  Even to defend from attacks from animals itself man need to be violent.  Women wouldn't have even existed due to lack of food or being attack by non human spices.

Have some gratitude for your fellow man.  More than 90% of the men die on their job on a daily basis.  IT's men who provide modern plumbing, most of the internet, even the food we eat.  If 90% of the men died we would lose almost every  have now!
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on June 30, 2014, 06:03:48 PM
Tell me more about how it's all women's fault MikeTO.

So we agree about Paul Elam and AFVM. But you call it feminism. That word, it does not mean what you think it means. :|

I'm not saying that violence is absolutely wrong, because of course it is necessary for survival. Think about it. That doesn't make all the violence happening today right. When I say violence, I'm referring to violent crime.

Oh the tired old phrase 'you'd be nothing without us', I've read that one before. Point not taken.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on June 30, 2014, 10:29:44 PM
Tell me more about how it's all women's fault MikeTO.

So we agree about Paul Elam and AFVM. But you call it feminism. That word, it does not mean what you think it means. :|

I'm not saying that violence is absolutely wrong, because of course it is necessary for survival. Think about it. That doesn't make all the violence happening today right. When I say violence, I'm referring to violent crime.

Oh the tired old phrase 'you'd be nothing without us', I've read that one before. Point not taken.

Women are violent also.  Not that gives any right for men to be violent.  This is where you fail.  In domentist violence, women initiate about 70% of the time.  I don't care about feminism or MRA because they lack the responsibility to fix things.  That's it.  But you think I"m blaming women.  I'm stating facts, nothing more.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 02, 2014, 03:12:53 AM
MikeTO my point which you keep evading is that men are disproportionately more violent, and my thesis is that this is due to patriarchal social norms being drilled into men's brains. This can be changed in a generation, and if you don't believe me just look at the work of Sapolsky on the Kikorak baboon troop. Of course in our case we will need to let it happen through social change over the course of several generations, or however long it takes -- but people like you spreading disinformation are what keeps us in the stoneage. It's enough to make me wonder what political goals are boing reached here with this ridiculousness (takes off conspiracy hat and sets it on shelf). :o

I can't really verify whether you're right about the domestic violence stuff, but my point still stands. 90% of murders iirc are committed by men.

If you want to take a neutral stance, don't start by comparing feminism to Nazis in your first post on this forum and repeatedly defending MRM while bashing both feminism and women. And if you're "not blaming women", try harder not to contradict yourself.

"You simply don't get it.  It's women who pushed men to the limit that's how MRA was born."  - YOU. ::)

And you're not blaming women. Sure.

In case I was unclear, the unwillingness of people to get rid of patriarchal norms and replace them with egalitarian ones is what keeps men's murder rate at a steady 90%. You're either part of the problem or part of the solution. Don't act like me giving myself a label gives MRAs license to disinform you and others what that label means, I'll speak for myself, so take what I have to say and think about it.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 02, 2014, 08:49:42 AM
I showed you the root cause of most violence.  Mothers hit their children more than father's do.  I said parents not just women are the root cause of violence especially in later years once a child grows up.  If feminist are concerned about violence the beginning step to outlaw spanking or abusing children in any form.  Notice I didn't just say women but adults, meaning men and women.  But since women hit children more than men it will have more of an impact.   

I stated facts not blaming.  If you push someone to the limits it's bound to come back at you.  If a person.  Girlwriteswhat stated many men sent her email saying " wow I thought I was alone, I was going to kill myself"  These men were isolated, weren't allowed to see their children, broke in most cases.  That's how the MRA grew so big.  Men will risk their lives to women still he's the bad one. 

You can spin anyway you can.  I have no problem what feminists want, I have said this repeatedly.  I have even said I don't like where MRA is heading especially AVFM. 
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on July 02, 2014, 09:13:16 AM
I showed you the root cause of most violence.  Mothers hit their children more than father's do.  I said parents not just women are the root cause of violence especially in later years once a child grows up.  If feminist are concerned about violence the beginning step to outlaw spanking or abusing children in any form.  Notice I didn't just say women but adults, meaning men and women.  But since women hit children more than men it will have more of an impact.   

I would highly doubt if this is really the root cause of all problems in the world.

Quote
I stated facts not blaming.  If you push someone to the limits it's bound to come back at you.  If a person.  Girlwriteswhat stated many men sent her email saying " wow I thought I was alone, I was going to kill myself"  These men were isolated, weren't allowed to see their children, broke in most cases.  That's how the MRA grew so big.  Men will risk their lives to women still he's the bad one.

just like feminists you ignore reasons of this behavior. Why do you think woman decides to kick out pretty good man and live alone? you must have extreme haltered for that man if you chose to live alone an ruin life for yourself and your children.
and why they even get in relationship wit a man whom she will kick out later?

Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 02, 2014, 11:58:41 AM
I showed you the root cause of most violence.  Mothers hit their children more than father's do.  I said parents not just women are the root cause of violence especially in later years once a child grows up.  If feminist are concerned about violence the beginning step to outlaw spanking or abusing children in any form.  Notice I didn't just say women but adults, meaning men and women.  But since women hit children more than men it will have more of an impact.   

I would highly doubt if this is really the root cause of all problems in the world.

Quote
I stated facts not blaming.  If you push someone to the limits it's bound to come back at you.  If a person.  Girlwriteswhat stated many men sent her email saying " wow I thought I was alone, I was going to kill myself"  These men were isolated, weren't allowed to see their children, broke in most cases.  That's how the MRA grew so big.  Men will risk their lives to women still he's the bad one.

just like feminists you ignore reasons of this behavior. Why do you think woman decides to kick out pretty good man and live alone? you must have extreme haltered for that man if you chose to live alone an ruin life for yourself and your children.
and why they even get in relationship wit a man whom she will kick out later?

I said most, i should have said a great deal.

Same way Stefan gets his listeners to drop their  love partner or defoo from friends and family.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on July 02, 2014, 12:22:56 PM
Quote
I have no idea why a woman would kick out a good man out of the house. Maybe she no longer loves the guy and wants to find someone new.
Unless that woman's is officially retarded there is no way she can expect to find a decent new man who will take her after her expiration date, loaded with children and disfigured by pregnancy.   

so you should consider that if she is making such choice there must be pretty good reason.
(unless of course woman is just retard who thinks that men will fight for attention of wrinkled old hag just as they did when she was young and attractive.)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 02, 2014, 01:52:10 PM
Quote
I have no idea why a woman would kick out a good man out of the house. Maybe she no longer loves the guy and wants to find someone new.
Unless that woman's is officially retarded there is no way she can expect to find a decent new man who will take her after her expiration date, loaded with children and disfigured by pregnancy.   

so you should consider that if she is making such choice there must be pretty good reason.
(unless of course woman is just retard who thinks that men will fight for attention of wrinkled old hag just as they did when she was young and attractive.)


One word, cougar.


I've met plenty of women with kids, who are 40 years old and above think they are still god's gift to men.    Plus plenty of feminist hate men enough to divorce.  Sorry but you are wrong women can be convinced to leave their husband with peer pressure and brain washing just like Stefan can get men to leave their partner.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 03, 2014, 12:04:53 AM
I showed you the root cause of most violence.  Mothers hit their children more than father's do.  I said parents not just women are the root cause of violence especially in later years once a child grows up.  If feminist are concerned about violence the beginning step to outlaw spanking or abusing children in any form.  Notice I didn't just say women but adults, meaning men and women.  But since women hit children more than men it will have more of an impact.   

I stated facts not blaming.  If you push someone to the limits it's bound to come back at you.  If a person.  Girlwriteswhat stated many men sent her email saying " wow I thought I was alone, I was going to kill myself"  These men were isolated, weren't allowed to see their children, broke in most cases.  That's how the MRA grew so big.  Men will risk their lives to women still he's the bad one. 

You can spin anyway you can.  I have no problem what feminists want, I have said this repeatedly.  I have even said I don't like where MRA is heading especially AVFM.


Certainly, child abuse needs to be outlawed. Hitting is assault, whether adult or minor. In my anarchist utopia, hitting would not be tolerated. However, there is no single cause of violence -- rather it is a complicated mess of causes (or to be more accurate, correlations) and I'm not very inclined to go into that very big topic in this thread. Certainly while the way the primary caregiver (often mothers) treats the child is very important, I'm not about to blame mothers for the whole of it. And really, if we blame mothers for the whole of it, who do we blame for the mothers abusing their kids? To me it only makes sense to focus on the abstraction: child abuse, patriarchy, and so on -- the societal patterns.

So no, it doesn't make sense to blame women for the problems of men, nor for their participation in MRM, especially when those women only seem to be guilty for refusing sex, having too much sex, wanting to be treated equally under the law and in the economy, wanting to be respected as people and not property, and wanting to not be bullied anymore for how well or badly they measure up to their gender norms.

Men who go through divorce -- yeah, it sucks. But remember it does suck for both sides. And really, the people for whom it sucks THE MOST are the children. That's why the laws are written in such a way that the goal (whether it is achieved or not) is stabilize the situation as much as possible for the children, by giving the primary caregiver custody of the children. And of course joint custody is very much a thing -- it surprises me that you're saying some dads somehow are barred from seeing their children. It makes me think there HAD to be a reason, and the only reason I can think is that the father abused the children, or is a threat to the children because he abused the wife and as such may well abuse the children too. (Hell, even being abusive to a spouse can be traumatic for a child.) ... Most divorced families I've met in my life, the father and mother lived in separate houses, and the children were able to either choose who to stay with or they were traded back and forth.

I'm not saying the justice system is very good, I'm quite cynical about the government after all.

Let me just paste an example of how I think patriarchal gender roles affects males. This will probably hit home for a lot of men. Contrary to what you may have heard, I care a great deal about men.

Quote from: [url]http://www.angeresources.com/shamebased.html[/url]
When I was a little boy, I was repeatedly shamed and bullied. I was hit and hurt, and told that I was not a "real," guy. I was put down, ridiculed, made fun of.

Being shamed regularly was an attempt to control me, and make me feel bad about myself. The more worthless I felt, the more the bullies and shamers could feel happy that they accomplished their goal. It has taken years to overcome that early shaming and bullying. Emotions I felt went ranged from anger to fear to sadness.

Millions of boys are shamed into fitting into a model of masculinity. They are called sissies, wimps, wusses, momma's boys, etc. if they don't conform to a cultural norm. In the process of conforming, boys lose a part of themselves, and spend their lives grieving these losses. Rather than being allowed to authentically develop into their true selves, they are coerced into a narrow "blueprint" of masculinity. Herb Goldberg, in his book "The New Male," written in 1979, says that "blueprint for masculinity is blueprint for self-destruction." This shaming process means that boys experience loss if they do fit in, and if they don't fit in. It is a no-win proposition. There are at least twenty-five messages that boys are taught. They include the following:

        Maintain a strong image
        Prove manhood by taking risks, even if foolish
        Sexualize affection - all touch is sexual touch
        Have many sexual conquests
        Don't be a virgin
        Don't be vulnerable
        Don't cry
        Don't express fear
        Don't ask for help, guidance or directions
        Don't trust anyone
        Be disposable - be willing to die for your country
        Pretend to know even when you don't
        Act tough
        Be in control
        Dominate others
        Devalue what is "feminine" in yourself and others
        Be emotionally detached
        Tough it out
        Don't take care of your body
        Win at all costs
        Abuse your body
        More is better - money, sex, food, alcohol
        Objectify women
        Prove manhood
        You are what you achieve or accomplish


Feminism hopes to break these abusive and destructive cultural norms so you can just Be Yourself.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 03, 2014, 12:20:30 AM
plenty of feminist hate men enough to divorce. 

There you go again,
Equating feminists to women
And saying they hate men

Whoosh ::)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 03, 2014, 12:31:36 AM
plenty of feminist hate men enough to divorce. 

There you go again,
Equating feminists to women
And saying they hate men

Whoosh ::)

I didn't say that.  I said plenty of feminist hating men.  Notice I didn't say women or all women.  You are trying spin.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 03, 2014, 12:38:47 AM
You do not get it it's a solution to REDUCE violence.  Blaming never solves anything.  Yes there are other factors.  However if I expect someone else not to do something I better sure I'm not doing it either.  If I expect others to quit smoking I better quit smoking.  See how it goes?  I only just showing one of the root cause of violence.  Childhood violence is just the beginning.

Btw if feminist wants problems resolve men should be able to get together without being receiving death threats, bomb threats and aggressive behaviour.  You can't just tell people to stop doing something it takes work.  Discussion is very important but feminism prevents that.   

So feminist are making things difficult, that's all to it.  Of course MRA isn't perfect either, especially when it comes to Paul Elam.  Hate never solves problems.  I don't hate anyone.  To me it's waste of energy.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 03, 2014, 04:04:37 AM
You do not get it it's a solution to REDUCE violence.  Blaming never solves anything.  Yes there are other factors.  However if I expect someone else not to do something I better sure I'm not doing it either.  If I expect others to quit smoking I better quit smoking.  See how it goes?  I only just showing one of the root cause of violence.  Childhood violence is just the beginning.

Btw if feminist wants problems resolve men should be able to get together without being receiving death threats, bomb threats and aggressive behaviour.  You can't just tell people to stop doing something it takes work.  Discussion is very important but feminism prevents that.   

So feminist are making things difficult, that's all to it.  Of course MRA isn't perfect either, especially when it comes to Paul Elam.  Hate never solves problems.  I don't hate anyone.  To me it's waste of energy.


Yes and I'm offering a solution to reduce violence that doesn't involve blaming people.

Feminists don't do any of those things, rather they receive the threats!!! Wtf!!!!

Bomb, death, and rape threats, aggressive behavior, and doxxing!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23523539 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23523539)
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/world/europe/uk-twitter-threats/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/world/europe/uk-twitter-threats/index.html)
http://www.dailydot.com/news/feminist-blogger-in-hiding-mra-death-threats/ (http://www.dailydot.com/news/feminist-blogger-in-hiding-mra-death-threats/)
http://theconversation.com/rape-and-death-threats-are-all-too-common-in-feminist-circles-just-ask-laura-bates-25418 (http://theconversation.com/rape-and-death-threats-are-all-too-common-in-feminist-circles-just-ask-laura-bates-25418)
http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2013/04/15/canadian-feminist-activist-receives-death-threats-and-other-abuse-after-being-targeted-by-mens-rights-activists/ (http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2013/04/15/canadian-feminist-activist-receives-death-threats-and-other-abuse-after-being-targeted-by-mens-rights-activists/)
http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/anita-sarkeesian-tropes-vs-women-debut/ (http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/anita-sarkeesian-tropes-vs-women-debut/)
http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/7851/article/woman-receives-death-threats-for-confronting-bendilin-spurr-misogynist-game-designer/ (http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/7851/article/woman-receives-death-threats-for-confronting-bendilin-spurr-misogynist-game-designer/)
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/man-arrested-after-hostile-threats-made-to-feminist-campaigner-on-twitter-29454752.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/man-arrested-after-hostile-threats-made-to-feminist-campaigner-on-twitter-29454752.html)
http://mic.com/articles/30887/amina-tyler-tunisian-woman-receiving-death-threats-for-trying-to-start-feminist-group (http://mic.com/articles/30887/amina-tyler-tunisian-woman-receiving-death-threats-for-trying-to-start-feminist-group)
http://feministcurrent.com/7555/mens-rights-activistsadvocate-for-human-rights-with-rape-and-death-threats/ (http://feministcurrent.com/7555/mens-rights-activistsadvocate-for-human-rights-with-rape-and-death-threats/)
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/ottawa/story/1.2589321 (http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/ottawa/story/1.2589321)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/witw/articles/2013/09/05/my-run-in-with-anti-feminist-twitter-death-threats.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/witw/articles/2013/09/05/my-run-in-with-anti-feminist-twitter-death-threats.html)
http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/death-threats-force-feminist-campaigner-out-of-university-debate-8821362.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/death-threats-force-feminist-campaigner-out-of-university-debate-8821362.html)
http://en.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=26889 (http://en.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=26889)

Throw this in here too:
http://mic.com/articles/73171/disturbing-google-searches-for-feminism-re-imagined-by-inspiring-feminists (http://mic.com/articles/73171/disturbing-google-searches-for-feminism-re-imagined-by-inspiring-feminists)
http://wegotmale.wordpress.com/ (http://wegotmale.wordpress.com/)

What the f*ck indeed.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 03, 2014, 08:24:30 AM
So what there is plenty of death threats and violence against MRA.  Not that I really care since I don't belong to any group because they are bunch of cluster f***s.

That link http://www.dailydot.com/news/feminist-blogger-in-hiding-mra-death-threats/ (http://www.dailydot.com/news/feminist-blogger-in-hiding-mra-death-threats/) is funny.  That woman lives in Mississuaga.  At least  one 25 % of torontoians probably watched the video.  The woman is very rude trying to shut up people not just against the MRA but a religious guy also.
It's good she lost her job, probably people claimed where she worked.  Customers don't want to deal with crazy people like her.  I guess she didn't have a government job, she would be safer from losing her job.  As for the death thread there is no proof.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 03, 2014, 08:32:51 AM
You do not get it it's a solution to REDUCE violence.  Blaming never solves anything.  Yes there are other factors.  However if I expect someone else not to do something I better sure I'm not doing it either.  If I expect others to quit smoking I better quit smoking.  See how it goes?  I only just showing one of the root cause of violence.  Childhood violence is just the beginning.

Btw if feminist wants problems resolve men should be able to get together without being receiving death threats, bomb threats and aggressive behaviour.  You can't just tell people to stop doing something it takes work.  Discussion is very important but feminism prevents that.   

So feminist are making things difficult, that's all to it.  Of course MRA isn't perfect either, especially when it comes to Paul Elam.  Hate never solves problems.  I don't hate anyone.  To me it's waste of energy.


Yes and I'm offering a solution to reduce violence that doesn't involve blaming people.

Feminists don't do any of those things, rather they receive the threats!!! Wtf!!!!

Bomb, death, and rape threats, aggressive behavior, and doxxing!!!
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23523539[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23523539[/url])
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/world/europe/uk-twitter-threats/index.html[/url] ([url]http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/world/europe/uk-twitter-threats/index.html[/url])
[url]http://www.dailydot.com/news/feminist-blogger-in-hiding-mra-death-threats/[/url] ([url]http://www.dailydot.com/news/feminist-blogger-in-hiding-mra-death-threats/[/url])
[url]http://theconversation.com/rape-and-death-threats-are-all-too-common-in-feminist-circles-just-ask-laura-bates-25418[/url] ([url]http://theconversation.com/rape-and-death-threats-are-all-too-common-in-feminist-circles-just-ask-laura-bates-25418[/url])
[url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2013/04/15/canadian-feminist-activist-receives-death-threats-and-other-abuse-after-being-targeted-by-mens-rights-activists/[/url] ([url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2013/04/15/canadian-feminist-activist-receives-death-threats-and-other-abuse-after-being-targeted-by-mens-rights-activists/[/url])
[url]http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/anita-sarkeesian-tropes-vs-women-debut/[/url] ([url]http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/anita-sarkeesian-tropes-vs-women-debut/[/url])
[url]http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/7851/article/woman-receives-death-threats-for-confronting-bendilin-spurr-misogynist-game-designer/[/url] ([url]http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/7851/article/woman-receives-death-threats-for-confronting-bendilin-spurr-misogynist-game-designer/[/url])
[url]http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/man-arrested-after-hostile-threats-made-to-feminist-campaigner-on-twitter-29454752.html[/url] ([url]http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/man-arrested-after-hostile-threats-made-to-feminist-campaigner-on-twitter-29454752.html[/url])
[url]http://mic.com/articles/30887/amina-tyler-tunisian-woman-receiving-death-threats-for-trying-to-start-feminist-group[/url] ([url]http://mic.com/articles/30887/amina-tyler-tunisian-woman-receiving-death-threats-for-trying-to-start-feminist-group[/url])
[url]http://feministcurrent.com/7555/mens-rights-activistsadvocate-for-human-rights-with-rape-and-death-threats/[/url] ([url]http://feministcurrent.com/7555/mens-rights-activistsadvocate-for-human-rights-with-rape-and-death-threats/[/url])
[url]http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/ottawa/story/1.2589321[/url] ([url]http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/ottawa/story/1.2589321[/url])
[url]http://www.thedailybeast.com/witw/articles/2013/09/05/my-run-in-with-anti-feminist-twitter-death-threats.html[/url] ([url]http://www.thedailybeast.com/witw/articles/2013/09/05/my-run-in-with-anti-feminist-twitter-death-threats.html[/url])
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/death-threats-force-feminist-campaigner-out-of-university-debate-8821362.html[/url] ([url]http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/death-threats-force-feminist-campaigner-out-of-university-debate-8821362.html[/url])
[url]http://en.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=26889[/url] ([url]http://en.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=26889[/url])

Throw this in here too:
[url]http://mic.com/articles/73171/disturbing-google-searches-for-feminism-re-imagined-by-inspiring-feminists[/url] ([url]http://mic.com/articles/73171/disturbing-google-searches-for-feminism-re-imagined-by-inspiring-feminists[/url])
[url]http://wegotmale.wordpress.com/[/url] ([url]http://wegotmale.wordpress.com/[/url])

What the f*ck indeed.



Sure do they even worse you are just avoiding them.  I gave a solution to reduce violence but you refuse to acknowledge it.  I'm obviously wasting my time going back and forth.  You are not a man of reason.  CAFE even been harassed just for talking about  boy crisis issues.  If there is no support for males how do you expect them to resolve the problem. 
Look at it this way, racism is still frowned upon and people been told not to be racist,  did it work?  No.  The so called victims want to people to stop talking about it, how they really think so the problem never really gets solved.

Education and therapy is the key but feminist doesn't even want that in fact they repeatly try to stop it.  So the problems will never get solved.  I remember a nurse tell me a couple stabbed each other with knives.  Women can just be violent as men.  I guess you are either brain washed or on drugs.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 03, 2014, 12:16:01 PM
"Lol he thinks I'm a woman. "

 
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 03, 2014, 12:21:34 PM
So what there is plenty of death threats and violence against MRA.  Not that I really care since I don't belong to any group because they are bunch of cluster f***s.

Citation needed.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 03, 2014, 12:52:55 PM
So what there is plenty of death threats and violence against MRA.  Not that I really care since I don't belong to any group because they are bunch of cluster f***s.

Citation needed.

I showed you with video links already.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 03, 2014, 01:22:28 PM
So what there is plenty of death threats and violence against MRA.  Not that I really care since I don't belong to any group because they are bunch of cluster f***s.

Citation needed.

I showed you with video links already.

Please dig this up.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on July 03, 2014, 01:29:28 PM
Please dig this up.

even if we asume that feminsts are non violent in general do you think such huge number of people will not include at lead few who will be violent?
or merely joning feminists you immediately become incapable of violence?

what is the point of this proof of violence. it is evident that violent feminists and violent women exist.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 03, 2014, 01:34:49 PM
"Lol he thinks I'm a woman. "

It only means that I find it funny that based upon my being a feminist and stating the values in my OP, I am automatically assumed to have a vagina. Like it really matters or is his business at all. It's funny because it reveals that his ideology makes him treat people differently based on their sex or professed gender. He has this need (as you also apparently do) to categorize me so he can begin rattling off propaganda.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 03, 2014, 01:36:54 PM
Please dig this up.

even if we asume that feminsts are non violent in general do you think such huge number of people will not include at lead few who will be violent?
or merely joning feminists you immediately become incapable of violence?

what is the point of this proof of violence. it is evident that violent feminists and violent women exist.

The point is that if there are violent feminists, they are the exception and not the norm.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on July 03, 2014, 02:03:16 PM
The point is that if there are violent feminists, they are the exception and not the norm.

and who defines what is norm? does definition of feminism exclude violent people?
I think it is pretty much evident that there is violent people everywhere and it is not worth arguing who has more of them.

however if you cooperate with those violent people for common goal you get the blame too.
Cooperation with criminal makes you criminal too even if you did nothing wrong.

 

Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 03, 2014, 02:40:09 PM
So what there is plenty of death threats and violence against MRA.  Not that I really care since I don't belong to any group because they are bunch of cluster f***s.

Citation needed.

I showed you with video links already.

Please dig this up.

You're being so lazy and you choose to ignore it.  I"m doing going to waste my time doing it again.
Also plenty of women hit their children so it is the norm. When you add domestic violence it's even more in the norm.

Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 03, 2014, 06:31:37 PM
So what there is plenty of death threats and violence against MRA.  Not that I really care since I don't belong to any group because they are bunch of cluster f***s.

Citation needed.

I showed you with video links already.

Please dig this up.

You're being so lazy and you choose to ignore it.  I"m doing going to waste my time doing it again.
Also plenty of women hit their children so it is the norm. When you add domestic violence it's even more in the norm.

I certainly don't deny being lazy, but it's not easy to do this from my phone.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 03, 2014, 06:34:51 PM
The point is that if there are violent feminists, they are the exception and not the norm.

and who defines what is norm? does definition of feminism exclude violent people?
I think it is pretty much evident that there is violent people everywhere and it is not worth arguing who has more of them.

however if you cooperate with those violent people for common goal you get the blame too.
Cooperation with criminal makes you criminal too even if you did nothing wrong.

The reality is that what defines the norm in this context is reality, and if there were violent feminists I have no doubt that it would be all over mainstream news.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 03, 2014, 06:35:57 PM
Quote
Leaders in the men’s right’s movement claim that their movement—and the conference—are intended to address issues facing men, yet their focus is primarily on blaming and harassing women. Paul Elam, founder of A Voice for Men, once declared that October should be “Bash a Violent Bitch Month.” He has claimed that women are “freaking begging” to be raped. He blogged, addressing feminist writer Jaclyn Friedman, “I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of f*cking your shit up gives me an erection.” In 2012, the Southern Poverty Law Center identified A Voice For Men in a publication titled “The Year in Hate and Extremism.” It is understandable, to the say the least, that feminists and other residents are concerned about Elam and his followers converging in Detroit, and have at the time of this writing gathered nearly 3,000 signatures on a petition urging Doubletree to cancel the event.

Of course MRAs have responded to news of the protest the way they respond to everything: by harassing women. From the moment the Facebook event page went live, men involved with and sympathetic to AVfM were harassing individuals as they RSVP’d for the protest, with some unsurprisingly going so far as to threaten violence against anyone who attempted to interfere with the conference. At least one woman involved with organizing the march and rally was targeted in a classic MRA fashion, when Jonathan Taylor posted her name and email on the Voice for Men blog. Taylor accused Emma Howland-Bolton, a fifth grade public-school teacher, of being responsible for (unconfirmed) bomb and death threats against the hotel, as well as being unfairly biased against her male students. Other MRAs have since contacted Howland-Bolton’s workplace and the Detroit superintendent of schools in an attempt to have her fired.

Howland-Bolton told me via email,

    When A Voice for Men started targeting me, publishing my personal information online—my picture, email, place of work—I guess I was flabbergasted. But I guess it’s not surprising that they acted in such an irrational manner. Sexism is irrational. Misogyny is irrational. So a male supremacist hate group like A Voice for Men that embraces sexism and misogyny is also going to be irrational. They make no effort to be coherent, to connect to reality. In fact, they can’t. You cannot connect to reality if your beliefs are predicated on the assumption that, simply by virtue of your gender, you are superior to another person.

Ironically, while they have been hard at work harassing and threatening women, AVfM has also been doing the other thing they excel at: playing the victim. Elam claims to have received a letter from hotel officials warning the conference organizers that the hotel has been receiving threats, and that “the threats have escalated to include death threats, physical violence against our staff and and other guests as well as damage to the property.” Neither hotel staff nor the Detroit Police have been able to offer any confirmation of the threats, but that hasn’t stopped Elam from using this as a fundraising opportunity; A Voice for Men has successfully raised $29,000 to cover additional security costs, an expense that Elam suggested should be covered by feminists.

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2014/06/06/protest-saturday-misogynistic-mra-conference-in-detroit/ (http://msmagazine.com/blog/2014/06/06/protest-saturday-misogynistic-mra-conference-in-detroit/)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 03, 2014, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: [url]http://fanniesroom.blogspot.com/2011/02/lets-talk-about-threats.html[/url]
On Threats
[TW: Threats; Harassment; Apologism; Sexual Assault]

I pulled this from the neverending-comment-thread because I think it deserves highlighting for purposes of making a larger point. Commenter EDB5fold aptly noted:

    For a frightening number of people (mostly men, who are more often than women socialized to respond to things they don't like with violence), identifying yourself as a feminist, or saying something that's ideologically in line with some part of feminism, is considered sufficient grounds for threatening your life. I won't separate some amorphous public concept of feminism from the lived realities of feminists.



To which I responded:

    I'm very glad you brought this up because it is so common, so much a part of our lives, that I think it often gets overlooked. Rape/death threats are a fact of life for most feminist bloggers, especially high-traffic bloggers. I have received them in comment threads and via email, and nearly every feminist blogger I read has received them.

    From what I have seen, this is not a phenomenon that MRAs experience, at least to the degree that feminists do. That, I think, underscores a lot of the male aggression entitlement issues that I have been talking about. The status quo in a rape culture is male violence against women.

    Catherine Mackinnon has written, to paraphrase, that some wrongs are so common they are sometimes thought of as too common to be atrocious. And likewise, some wrongs are so atrocious they are assumed to be uncommon.

    I guess I'm reminded of how sucky it is that rape/death threats are so casually treated by mainstream society as Just An Expected Part of Feminist Blogging. Maybe it's our just deserts for "hating men"?

    [TW: Suicide, threats]

    Indeed, when I first started blogging, an anti-feminist man sent me a few incredibly creepy emails encouraging me to commit suicide and outlining various ways I could do it. When I mentioned that at an anti-feminist, anti-gay blog, a commenter noted, 'Well, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar,' implying that I brought the threats upon myself.



Let's talk about this.

I am of course speaking from my own experience and from what I see as both a writer and reader of many feminist blogs and as a reader of MRA/anti-feminist/non-feminist blogs, but it's not often that I hear of feminists making veiled threats to MRA bloggers where we fantasize about them getting "rape[d] in the dead of night."

Indeed, I'm just not seeing large numbers of feminists going to MRA and other anti-feminist sites and celebrating, encouraging, and joking about sexual assault and violence against male and anti-feminist bloggers.

Many feminists would rightly be appalled at and condemn that sort of violent speech.

Yet, when people do it to feminist, such threats are so expected that it's often treated as unremarkable. That is the status quo.

What's the reason for this? Well, what does a feminist expect if she's going to espouse "man-hating" views, right?

If we think of some of the stereotypes of feminists, it becomes apparent that these caricatures exist not only to minimize feminist arguments, but to silence us and further justify the status quo of male violence against women. They perpetuate a culture where it's okay for some types of people to violate another type of people's boundaries.

Framing feminists as loud-mouthed screechy man-hating c*nts, and that is indeed how we are widely framed in non-feminist circles, makes it easier for people to believe that we are somehow responsible for real or threatened acts of violence against us. Even if people condemn theats against feminists, many of them still say, well, honey + vinegar, remember ladies? Better watch your tone and make sure you are sufficiently non-offensive to hyper-defensive men who are, themselves, quite okay with aggression as long as they're the ones dishing it out.

Yet, what I've come to learn over the years is that while men are expected, encouraged, and entitled to be aggressive and angry and foaming at the mouth about anything from politics to traffic to football games, no political argument coming from a female feminist will ever be deemed sufficiently pleasant, accomodating, smiley, giggly, or civil enough if it's an argument against rape culture, patriarchy, or misogyny. Usually what happens is that criticisms of these wrongs are deemed much worse than the object of the feminist criticism.

And if, goddess forbid, a feminist actually shows anger, the non/anti-feminist will exaggerate it so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that's ultimately used to discredit hir.

It is no coincidence that these stereotypes about what feminists are like, and how responsible we are for threats and violence against us also parallel rape apologist narratives like "what was she doing drinking so much, anyway?"

Both preserve the status quo of "victim" being viewed as just an essential characteristic of women. Both preserve the status quo that some people's boundaries don't matter.

The feminist starting point is that our arguments are met with threats of violence from those along the political spectrum. The non/anti-feminist and MRA position is not, which underscorse the perversity of MRAs so often leeching the language of feminist equality to advance their so-often-resoundingly-anti-feminist agenda.

Accepting the proposition that feminism and non/anti-feminism are just two different-but-equally-legitimate ways of seeing things means accepting the propostion that pervasive violence and threats against women are just as legitimate as non-violence against women and respecting our boundaries.

"There is no neutral in rape culture."

Non-feminism is anti-feminism.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 04, 2014, 08:25:15 AM
Actually there was a letter from the double tree hotel claiming they were receiving death threats.  Nice going try to lie about things.  I really don't know.  It's funny because I was attacked with a woman with a knife just over a decade ago.  She was trying to rob me at knife point but I didn't hit her until she tried to stab another one who tried to help me.


Look at this, these women don't look scared at all.  Far from it in fact, it just proves a lot of feminist are bunch of hot hair.  :P

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FmsNiqX2s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7FmsNiqX2s#ws)

This is video proof of feminist violence, not claimed to be violent.  HUGE difference because people can lie but video footage can't lie.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 04, 2014, 02:23:35 PM
The accusations AVFM made about receiving death threats from 'feminists' is full of holes. There is not enough evidence to conclude it. Some people even think it's a hoax (http://mancheeze.wordpress.com/2014/06/03/paul-elams-sham-scam-there-have-been-no-feminist-threats-regarding-mra-conference/).

Let me watch that video brb.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 04, 2014, 04:58:55 PM
Lololol that video. That's proof that feminists are violent? This is a typical protest. Look they're angry, sometimes they shout. Oooh scary. So violence! Lol
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Elucidated on July 09, 2014, 06:42:21 PM

I do not cry for anything I cant change fact that women are mostly whores who only engage in sexual activities to get paid in some way (according to your statement you agree to that) it does not matter if payment is love or money it is still payment
All i can do is to say to all those whore go and f*ck yourself because I will not pay you anything.

Why does any body even respond to this guy?

Various comments in this thread talk about 'feminists' and feminist views, (typical feminists, radical feminists etc). I can identify with feminsts or not as I please, and people can define the term in various ways which I may or may not agree with, but I AM a woman with no choice in the matter, and when someone talks this way about 'most women', as a woman I take it personally and I make no apologies about that.  I find Omega's hate filled views and his manner of expressing them sickening.

Others who are posting with 'anti-feminist' views, for want of a better description, are managing to do so without being offensive in the extreme. In answer to a question posed in another thread 'Is FDRLib becoming a hate site?' I would say that YES, unfortunately it is, but not in the way the OP meant.



Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Omega on July 09, 2014, 09:29:16 PM

I do not cry for anything I cant change fact that women are mostly whores who only engage in sexual activities to get paid in some way (according to your statement you agree to that) it does not matter if payment is love or money it is still payment
All i can do is to say to all those whore go and f*ck yourself because I will not pay you anything.

Why does any body even respond to this guy?

Various comments in this thread talk about 'feminists' and feminist views, (typical feminists, radical feminists etc). I can identify with feminsts or not as I please, and people can define the term in various ways which I may or may not agree with, but I AM a woman with no choice in the matter, and when someone talks this way about 'most women', as a woman I take it personally and I make no apologies about that.  I find Omega's hate filled views and his manner of expressing them sickening.

Others who are posting with 'anti-feminist' views, for want of a better description, are managing to do so without being offensive in the extreme. In answer to a question posed in another thread 'Is FDRLib becoming a hate site?' I would say that YES, unfortunately it is, but not in the way the OP meant.

I think it should be against the rules to do personal attacks or I am wrong?
None of my posts contain any call to violence or hate or any form or enforcing my views on someone else. I have full rights to love and hate whomever I want. And I could not care less if you feel sickened or aroused or whatever else.


Quote
I can identify with feminsts or not as I please, and people can define the term in various ways which I may or may not agree with, but I AM a woman with no choice in the matter,
Yes you do have choice, you do not need to identify yourself as woman. You can identify yourself as whomever you like.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Lee Li on July 10, 2014, 04:12:26 AM
Elucidated - sometimes the disease of a culture is exposed by focusing on its worst manifestations, which are generally exaggerated forms of the mainstream. There is a common thread and that is misogyny.

I totally agree, what he says is nauseating. I like picking at some things, but most of it doesn't even warrant a response. Thank you for weighing in. Do you mean that it is becoming a hate site in the sense that it is getting filled with oppressive bullshit directed towards particular demographics, because people with such views are given a platform? I mean, not to put words in your mouth. I am just trying to understand in what way. I think it's not a safe space, at least I don't look at this place as one to safely express things without fear of running up against sexism, racism, etc. Especially as Stefan starts to attract the kind of crowd he does nowadays, and some percentage of them will flee.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Elucidated on July 10, 2014, 07:14:36 AM
Do you mean that it is becoming a hate site in the sense that it is getting filled with oppressive bullshit directed towards particular demographics, because people with such views are given a platform? I mean, not to put words in your mouth. I am just trying to understand in what way.

Yeah almost that, but not so much giving people with supremacist views a platform to express them, but to express them in such an offensive, hate-filled way.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: QuestEon on July 10, 2014, 10:41:13 AM
Do you mean that it is becoming a hate site in the sense that it is getting filled with oppressive bullshit directed towards particular demographics, because people with such views are given a platform? I mean, not to put words in your mouth. I am just trying to understand in what way.


Yeah almost that, but not so much giving people with supremacist views a platform to express them, but to express them in such an offensive, hate-filled way.


The passage you quoted from Omega was made before (and was one of the reasons why) I offered him the following warning in this thread: Re: But Feminists ARE Socialists with panties! (http://www.fdrliberated.com/forum/index.php?topic=704.msg10211#msg10211) :

Quote
...I'm trying to be as clear as I can now, so that if you remain unable to raise the quality of your arguments above unsupportable generalities laced with abusive vulgarity there will be no confusion as to why I've suspended your account, should I need to.


This is not and won't become a hate site. My challenge is in keeping it a free speech site but one of high quality. Believe me, it is a challenge.
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: MikeTO on July 13, 2014, 11:20:37 AM
The accusations AVFM made about receiving death threats from 'feminists' is full of holes. There is not enough evidence to conclude it. Some people even think it's a hoax ([url]http://mancheeze.wordpress.com/2014/06/03/paul-elams-sham-scam-there-have-been-no-feminist-threats-regarding-mra-conference/[/url]).

Let me watch that video brb.


Official   letter AFVM  received  from double tree hotel.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/07/AVFM-Security-Letter.pdf (http://www.avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/07/AVFM-Security-Letter.pdf)
Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: Elucidated on July 16, 2014, 07:12:58 AM
Do you mean that it is becoming a hate site in the sense that it is getting filled with oppressive bullshit directed towards particular demographics, because people with such views are given a platform? I mean, not to put words in your mouth. I am just trying to understand in what way.


Yeah almost that, but not so much giving people with supremacist views a platform to express them, but to express them in such an offensive, hate-filled way.


The passage you quoted from Omega was made before (and was one of the reasons why) I offered him the following warning in this thread: Re: But Feminists ARE Socialists with panties! ([url]http://www.fdrliberated.com/forum/index.php?topic=704.msg10211#msg10211[/url]) :

Quote
...I'm trying to be as clear as I can now, so that if you remain unable to raise the quality of your arguments above unsupportable generalities laced with abusive vulgarity there will be no confusion as to why I've suspended your account, should I need to.


This is not and won't become a hate site. My challenge is in keeping it a free speech site but one of high quality. Believe me, it is a challenge.

Thanks for the clarification on this, maybe just as well to have it stated in this thread too.
The challenge of your role is much appreciated.


Title: Re: Values: What I Believe (As a Typical Feminist)
Post by: phlogiston on July 18, 2014, 04:36:16 AM
I think it's not a safe space, at least I don't look at this place as one to safely express things without fear of running up against sexism, racism, etc.

 If you mean express without being  censored or banned  while they are not the same meaning "=" you are right. If you mean your idea is right without questioning the opponents you are wrong. This is a place to let questions fly and not a place to assume anything. I can say elephants fly. I can't argue who are you to judge me about that belief. I can give proof why they can, or I can expect ppl to ignore my statement.
 I have lots of opinions. Some might matter. I hate chocolate doesn't. I think the environment matters might.