FDR Liberated Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: BicameralMilieu on August 17, 2014, 10:32:39 PM

Title: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 17, 2014, 10:32:39 PM
http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=7d8ba66 (http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=7d8ba66)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copywright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Argent on August 17, 2014, 10:51:11 PM
That's pretty rich, coming from a man who has one counterexample to the claim that he never bows to reason and evidence, and that is that Stephan Kinsella changed his mind on intellectual property. What is Kinsella's take on IP?

Quote
Would a libertarian society recognize patents as legitimate? What about copyright? In Against Intellectual Property, Stephan Kinsella, a patent attorney of many years’ experience, offers his response to these questions. Kinsella is altogether opposed to intellectual property, and he explains his position in this brief but wide-ranging book.

http://mises.org/document/3582/Against-Intellectual-Property (http://mises.org/document/3582/Against-Intellectual-Property)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copywright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 17, 2014, 11:29:35 PM
scrampi (TruShibes?), we hope you're backing these videos up in case FDR goes full mounty of the TruShibes channel.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copywright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Anarchist on August 17, 2014, 11:34:10 PM
Stefan never changes his core views.

Before he was supposedly an ancap, he was a right-wing Randian hawk who wrote comments to newspapers about how arguments from first principles made it Hussein's fault for the US invasion. He has no clue how logic works or how to build a logical argument or what the valid syllogisms are.

He's still talking about how people who don't pay him for his intellectual property are stealing (they certainly aren't taking physical property!) and now this, proving that he doesn't even really believe that ancapism can work, which is why he subverted YouTube's control over its own property with the codified form of legal threat called the DMCA. I'm pretty sure Google, which owns YouTube, isn't all for silencing criticism of cults.

Nothing changes in him fundamentally. Nothing ever can or will change because he has no logic at all but he thinks of himself as the most logical person in generations and thinks of his opinions as solid facts.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: QuestEon on August 17, 2014, 11:51:59 PM
And a blog post!!!!

Stefan Molyneux tries to silence another voice (http://www.fdrliberated.com/stefan-molyneux-tries-to-silence-another-voice/)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 18, 2014, 12:01:39 AM
wow ... a video made about it already:  :o

 PUT THE GUN DOWN, STEFAN MOLYNEUX! ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhBO0Pk6iNk#ws[/url])


His Facebook post "IP must die!"

[url]https://www.facebook.com/stefan.molyneux/posts/242827249085001[/url] ([url]https://www.facebook.com/stefan.molyneux/posts/242827249085001[/url])

And a blog post!!!!

Stefan Molyneux tries to silence another voice ([url]http://www.fdrliberated.com/stefan-molyneux-tries-to-silence-another-voice/[/url])




Bravo!
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 18, 2014, 04:14:50 AM
A shocking but predictable turn of events. The claim made against the Tru Shibes corporation is deceitful at its core because the issue is not copyright (although I might not complain too much if someone at the YouTube corporation, obliged as they are to follow legal guidelines, were to insist that it is indeed about copyright and help Mr Molyneux in his desire to remain the only legitimate poster of his video material by removing all other complete and partial reproductions existing - as yet unchallenged - on YouTube).

The issue, of course, is simply and forever about silencing critics.

How different from the approach taken by the CEO of Tru Shibes, who has received some very harsh criticism of the corporation's output in the comments but has allowed them all to stand for anyone to see and form an independent opinion.
I checked the FDR boards and there are no posts referencing this extremely relevant (ethically and with regard to general community issues) affair, which is quite odd given the large number of users, their devotion to YouTube, and, sadly sometimes, the amount of free time they have on their hands.

See, by contrast, the recent banning of Omega on this forum. The matter has been widely addressed and discussed already despite the FDR/FDRL scale difference (and, if I have time, will soon be further addressed and rambled about by the dreaded Prod). The tolerance displayed by QE, like that of the TS CEO, has been exemplary. Critical voices have been allowed to stand and discussion following such posts or comments has been frank and open, with positions clearly stated in the main, although even tendentious comments with no visible grounding in reality have been left unharmed.

And that, in my view, is the behaviour of people who truly appreciate the importance of ethics and humility and would never have the 'unimitigated audacity' (FZ) to characterise themselves as paragons of either virtue.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 18, 2014, 04:30:06 AM
[url]http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=7d8ba66[/url] ([url]http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=7d8ba66[/url])


Why - I was asking myself - is BM's post edited by QE? Are you one and the same? :o
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: QuestEon on August 18, 2014, 07:22:46 AM
[url]http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=7d8ba66[/url] ([url]http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=7d8ba66[/url])


Why - I was asking myself - is BM's post edited by QE? Are you one and the same? :o

I feel terrible about this. I have an illness. I try so hard to control it; I really do. When I see a little typo in a subject header, it becomes the only thing I can see. (Especially when the subject is an important one.) No one else notices because it's not that big a deal, I know. But...I have this illness... I fixed the spelling of the word "copyright" in the header of that post.  :)

(I would never alter the contents of anyone's post unless it was one of those rare moderated posts, in which I make it clear that some administration occurred.)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: QuestEon on August 18, 2014, 09:41:48 AM
My legal advice isn't worth a damn, but it seems to me that the defense of your videos is that they are within the Fair Use exception to copyright law...
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Argent on August 18, 2014, 10:04:07 AM
Would it be possible to keep a running list of the ones that have been taken down, with direct links to the parts of the youtube videos you used?

E.g. I've never heard Stefan discuss Landmark Education Forum, so that would be interesting. Evidently, I should have seen this coming when QE posted the article about it, and watched your whole catalogue.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Elucidated on August 18, 2014, 11:46:56 AM
From another thread - January 2013:

I have all of them, though there may be copyright issues in making them public.
On 15th January this was posted on FDR:

“So I've always thought that Stefan Molyneux was against copyright laws like most acaps are. So my friend recently wrote to me that on the bottom of the forum page we see: Copyright 2005-2012 By Stefan Molyneux. Is there any explenation for this?”

On 16th January Stefan Molyneux replied: “Thanks, I forgot about that, I will remove it”

Today (22nd Jan)- screen shot showing copyright:

Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: HansKarlsson on August 18, 2014, 05:29:10 PM
Have no clue how Mr. Molyneux would explain this logically, but I invite any true believer who reads this forum and is still not convinced about the bullshit FDR's promoting, to give his take on it.

Also, I have no clue about DMCA either, does it apply if only sound is used too? Probably it does. What if one keeps the content under a certain number of seconds/minutes? If needed, I could go research. I'm very sorry about Tru Shibes' work.

On the other hand... under the DMCA act, shouldn't Tru Shibes be permanently banned from this forum and all his content removed? ::)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Token Nazi on August 18, 2014, 08:16:13 PM
Have no clue how Mr. Molyneux would explain this logically, but I invite any true believer who reads this forum and is still not convinced about the bullshit FDR's promoting, to give his take on it.

Well, I can imagine many different ways Molyneux might justify what he's done. He uses consequentialism to get out of sticky situations that a strict adherence to the NAP creates, so he could say that the ends justify the means. He could also say that since we exist in a milieu of coercion because of the state, using coercion is unavoidable, or that criticism constitutes verbal abuse, or that misrepresenting his message is fraud, and that's just what I can come up with off the top of my head. I don't think anyone who believes the important points of his worldview will be too troubled by it.

Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: HansKarlsson on August 18, 2014, 09:43:22 PM
Have no clue how Mr. Molyneux would explain this logically, but I invite any true believer who reads this forum and is still not convinced about the bullshit FDR's promoting, to give his take on it.
Well, I can imagine many different ways Molyneux might justify what he's done. He uses consequentialism to get out of sticky situations that a strict adherence to the NAP creates, so he could say that the ends justify the means.
Ok, but (1) he's not leading by example any more; (2) he would still need to deal with Tru Shibes' criticism, which is the most constructive criticism Molyneaux can hope for. If he beats that he's far ahead. Of course, if the criticism wasn't founded, you would see Tru Shibes' videos being disassembled all over the FDR board.

He could also say that since we exist in a milieu of coercion because of the state, using coercion is unavoidable
If the state uses coercion against him, moral principles only allow him to use coercion against the state, not against individual people who he can't prove whether they support the state or not. And no, being against what Molyneux sometimes says doesn't automatically mean one supports the state.

or that criticism constitutes verbal abuse
I know how Molyneaux spins (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vOfuBHktM8) this around, if criticism is not useful towards the goals he tries to achieve he rejects it as verbal abuse. So if my criticism doesn't help him become the best philosopher of all time who solved the most complicated issues starting from first principles, it's rejected as verbal abuse. So I can't see him as a lunatic who continuously rambles on, spreading a mix of hate and common sense, because if I do, I abuse him and in self defense he can kill me. Makes a lot of sense, right? And even if it would be verbal abuse, why nobody is allowed on the FDR board to talk about it? "Hey, look, this dude is abusing FDR!". They are allowed to do this in other cases (http://nullreferrer.com/r/?https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41029-illogical-criticism-of-stefan-and-fdr/), where, even if Molyneaux looks like shit, everybody understands it's a satire, but not the true believers, they see it as "illogical criticism".

What Tru Shibes mostly do is let Molyneux say A, then B, where A and B are in contradiction with each other, this proving that Molyneux is a shit spreader in that case. So I can't come and criticize that, because if I do, I don't help towards the shit spreading process he tries to accomplish, right?

or that misrepresenting his message is fraud
He would have to prove the misrepresentation, which again, if he could, he would have happily done it.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Argent on August 18, 2014, 10:35:09 PM
My guess is, he would justify this using an analogy to defending his child from an attacker (or something similar).

If he and his daughter are walking down the street and an attacker pounces, is he going to stop and give a logical list of reasons for intervening? No, he's clearly justified in immediately jumping in to protect her. Even if he considers himself a pacifist in the abstract, he's not going to stand there and watch someone attack his daughter.

Criticism of FDR now does more than bruise Stefan's ego. It also threatens his daughter's quality of life.

Similarly for MMD, his livelihood now depends on the success of FDR. I don't know what kind of deal they've worked out, but presumably if donations dip below some threshold, the researcher and then MMD are out of a job.

It would be nice if they were more committed to their principles than to their livelihoods, but I don't know many people like that. (Incidentally, this is one of the reasons why I don't think anarchism would be any more successful than what's in place now. People will always find a way to look out for themselves and their families first and foremost, even if it means trampling others in the process.)

I must admit, it would suck having someone put your years of rambling under the microscope to look for any inconsistencies. Unfortunately for Stefan, he called this upon himself by placing so much importance on the correctness of his arguments.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: QuestEon on August 18, 2014, 10:44:57 PM
YouTube cancelled Tru Shibes' account, gang. I'm furious that Molyneux pulled off another unethical attack on a critic.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Argent on August 18, 2014, 11:01:51 PM
Really sucks for PoS because I can only imagine how much work was put into them. Maybe you can host them elsewhere so that they can at least be found by people who go looking for them?

As for Stefan, if he is going to force people to use text quotes rather than video quotes, he's only harming himself in the long run. He sarcastically says a lot of stuff that could easily be used against him if taken seriously. Video footage makes it easier for people to judge for themselves.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio U7ses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: QuestEon on August 18, 2014, 11:19:52 PM
7 YouTube alternatives....

http://thetecnica.com/2014/02/youtube-alternatives (http://thetecnica.com/2014/02/youtube-alternatives)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: asaucerfulofsecrets on August 18, 2014, 11:33:18 PM
Hey all,

I come around from time to time but almost only ever lurk. Mostly, Facebook eats more of my FDR/Stef time (on occasion) though my interest in cutting way back on social media waxes and wanes.

I just want to give you all a heads up that apparently Stef will be guest on the Joe Rogan show this Thursday. It has come to my attention, through a private FB group member, that we might find it within interests to tweet to Rogan about this issue and see if he puts Stef on the spot with this issue.

Blog it. Facebook it. Tweet it. And load it on the alternative to youtube sites Q listed above.







Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 18, 2014, 11:53:44 PM
YouTube cancelled Tru Shibes' account, gang. I'm furious that Molyneux pulled off another unethical attack on a critic.

Ditto. I'm on my "no more Mr. Nice Guy" zone.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: QuestEon on August 19, 2014, 01:45:39 AM
I just put the following update on the blog post:

Quote
Update! One day after this post was written, Molyneux succeeded in having the Tru Shibes YouTube page deleted. However, I don’t think he’s going to be able to silence the work that has been done. Truth finds a way and I look forward to seeing those videos on-line again.

In the meantime, any Freedomain Radio True Believer is cordially invited to the FDR Liberated forum to explain how an internet philosopher—one with absolute notions regarding (1) intellectual property and (2) using the gun in the room to get your way—can participate in these actions without exposing himself as a hypocrite. No, “his employee did it” won’t be an acceptable defense. Yes, everyone will be very nice to you, because it’s that kind of forum. I, for one, would be fascinated by your arguments.

Call me crazy, but I don't think I'll get any takers.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Token Nazi on August 19, 2014, 03:07:17 AM
I just put the following update on the blog post:

Quote
Update! One day after this post was written, Molyneux succeeded in having the Tru Shibes YouTube page deleted. However, I don’t think he’s going to be able to silence the work that has been done. Truth finds a way and I look forward to seeing those videos on-line again.

In the meantime, any Freedomain Radio True Believer is cordially invited to the FDR Liberated forum to explain how an internet philosopher—one with absolute notions regarding (1) intellectual property and (2) using the gun in the room to get your way—can participate in these actions without exposing himself as a hypocrite. No, “his employee did it” won’t be an acceptable defense. Yes, everyone will be very nice to you, because it’s that kind of forum. I, for one, would be fascinated by your arguments.

Call me crazy, but I don't think I'll get any takers.

I think you and Karlsson don't understand what the purpose of philosophy is. In the act of explaining why the world is the way it is, you are engaging in the act of apologetics for whoever made the world the way it is, which is basically theodicy; this is the reason for Marx's infamous eleventh thesis on Feuerbach, and the flipside of the "reality based community".

I'm sure Molyneux can play hardball and gin up a rationalization for what he did, though it will take some doin'. I would recommend that he learn from the masters, but he seems content to just confuse different meanings of a word and abuse ambiguities in everyday vernacular, which he uses instead of more technical and precise vocabulary because "four-year-olds should be able to understand it". (Frankly, I think that if your kid can't parse Hegelese then he should be riding the short bus to school)

If he wasn't responsible for the suicides of bright young white people I might even consider being paid to defend him, but while the various elements of his schtick seem to be arbitrary, they're actually mutually supporting structural features that fit very well together, and what I like to write would clash with everything else.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 19, 2014, 07:58:06 AM
Hello,

I'm the guy who made the video PUT THE GUN DOWN, STEFAN MOLYNEUX! Though I can't make an excuse for the man, because I find what he did inexcusable, I can provide you with excuses that I have received. One is even a current gold member from the FDR forum and the other Mr. Larken Rose himself. This seemed to be the only argument I've received and I think this is the angle they're going for.

Gold response: http://i.imgur.com/h5vJPvH.png (http://i.imgur.com/h5vJPvH.png)
Mr. Rose's response: http://i.imgur.com/Ctwmd7T.png (http://i.imgur.com/Ctwmd7T.png)

The Rose response is the reason why this retort is invalid. YouTube does have a EULA provision against copyright but only because of copyright law and the DMCA law. The DMCA takedown is a legal affidavit, and not an internal YouTube flag process. I've only received 5 types of response to this.

1. The first is restating the position as if it lends it any more validity. Then leads to...
2. Silence. They walk away from the discussion for whatever reason.
3. Personal attacks. Mr Molynuex would say this is #NaA
4. That in an free society such a system would exist. Fair, but Mr. Molynuex has stated he's against the whole concept of IP. This would still make him a hypocrite.
5. That Stef flagged it for CS or ToS violations and YouTube may have accidentally filed it under copyright. This is false because all copyright flags are done solely though the DMCA and not YouTube's flagging system. There is no flag for copyright nor may YouTube (nor anyone) make copyright claims against anyone they do not have rights to. YouTube does not involve themselves in copyright. When a takedown is ordered the videos go down as they are to be by law. There's no checking, investigating, or anything by YouTube. You may counterfile and YouTube doesn't check those either, that goes to the court house and if YouTube hears nothing from the court in 14 (?) days then it is automatically instated. It all works on code and algorithms. YouTube makes it clear they don't involve themselves in it when you make a claim or counterclaim. A Google search would have revealed this had they looked before they made the erroneous claim.

But hopefully that will provide some insight into what the furvant FDR followers have been spinning this. No word on what Mr. Molyneux has said. There was a rumor that he denied involvement, but it's all hearsay.

Hope this helped.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: megi on August 19, 2014, 09:39:47 AM
Hi guys, I downloaded all TruShibes videos, that survived the first two takedown requests yesterday. And I'll be uploading them to this mega.co.nz folder:

https://mega.co.nz/#F!aZ9wBAZS!XGZHNB2dXUzbg0c82r7mrg (fixed link)

I have 79 videos to upload, it will take some time.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: megi on August 19, 2014, 09:56:38 AM
TruShibes, if you read this  ;), feel free to share the link on the facebook page.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: asaucerfulofsecrets on August 19, 2014, 10:40:39 AM
Tru Shibes, scrampi, simply being on your FB page and making a comment got me Truth-Blocked from Stef's personal FB page.  :)

Best part of my day so far.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Fedaykin on August 19, 2014, 10:58:14 AM
First post after a while lurking but just to introduce myself, I have followed Stefan's antics for a number of years. Being an Atheist who follows that world on Youtube it is hard to miss him. Considering I so disagree with his politics I took a dislike to the man fairly quickly, a video he released a while back where he totally misunderstood British cultural structures and economy where he stated that we were at the edge of an economic collapse due to our health care system particularly irritated me (I'm British by the way). When I started to hear DeFOO stories that dislike turned to disgusted horror. I have much to say about the man and I hope you guys will allow my musings over time but this recent development has pushed me over the time to sign and make my voice heard threshold.

DMCA as a tool is a very blunt hammer and abuse of it is serious and illegal under US law. It should be remembered that a DMCA take down notice is filed under penalty of perjury under US law. How that relates to a Canadian citizen making the take down notice in Canada I do not know but this is a serious issue as Tru Shribes work would fall under the term educational or for the reason of criticism which is exempted under the act.

I get the impression that the initial take down notice on some videos was a bit of a fishing exercise to see what the reaction is. Unfortunately considering Stef and his followers to look at this forum when you said this scrampi:

Quote
Yes, that is clear, Q, but to defend them, I'd have to reveal my identity, and possibly get a lawyer.  I actually know a few IP attorneys personally, but this is so petty, it is probably not worthwhile for anyone.  Letting Stefan make a fool of himself, just as most of the videos revealed, might be more interesting.

You pretty much gave him open house to just continue abusing the DMCA system without risk of legal push back.

I remember a few years back Thunderf00t had his whole DMCA issue with various creationists leading to one making an apology under threat of legal action publicly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvCbNDGwypk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvCbNDGwypk)

It might well be worth dropping him a line about this as he has had a recent run in with Stef himself over the last few weeks. Also the Electronic Frontiers Foundation might be another interesting line to take.

Anyhow pity it happened but don't let him win!
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 19, 2014, 12:03:52 PM

thanks for the link to thunderf00t's video.  I am still evaluating options on how to fight this, after I get to know more about the laws around this, and also the precedents that have been set.

I'll be glad to donate Dogecoins to the effort. :P
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 19, 2014, 01:05:10 PM
Lowering the tone a little here, but I wanted to draw your attention to the sad situation afflicting one respondent to Jim Jesus's video. This is an older gentleman who many will recognise as a bigger PK than the Great Man himself and a primary "undue influencer" of the young and dispirited, but his mighty thrust failed so badly that I even suspect Jim Jesus and Dr. Elvis H. Christ thought he was supporting their cause. Doh!

Can't work out how to post a screenshot worth a damn due to limited intelligence, but the comment references British TV comedyh classic 'Dad's Army'.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3918/14784559459_ba9b6deb63_m.jpg)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Disillusioned on August 19, 2014, 01:27:36 PM
So, on the FDR forum, there is a new thread "Because people have asked...", where MMD explains, "I received messages from several listeners about their calls/images/videos from participation in our shows being used to bully them online. This was spread a cross two different channels and they asked if I could have the content removed. Going after listeners is completely unacceptable and I used the methods at my disposal to remove the material. If you attack listeners, you don't get to use any of our material. That's the line."

See? The material was taken down to protect the listeners! So selfless. Stef has no problem with criticisms, he just won't tolerate bullies, obvs.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: jolly_roger on August 19, 2014, 01:29:55 PM
Have no clue how Mr. Molyneux would explain this logically

The results are in: no one guessed right ;)

Quote from: Michael M. DeMarco
I received messages from several listeners about their calls/images/videos from participation in our shows being used to bully them online. This was spread a cross two different channels and they asked if I could have the content removed. Going after listeners is completely unacceptable and I used the methods at my disposal to remove the material. If you attack listeners, you don't get to use any of our material. That's the line.

source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/freedomainradio/757872784269014 (https://www.facebook.com/groups/freedomainradio/757872784269014)
(Can someone verify the link, by the way? Just got booted from the FDR group for my contributions to the thread about this incident)


thanks for the link to thunderf00t's video.  I am still evaluating options on how to fight this, after I get to know more about the laws around this, and also the precedents that have been set.

I'll be glad to donate Dogecoins to the effort. :P

I understand if you want to stay anonymous, but from what I understand, if you challenge them, they don't have a leg to stand on (though admittedly my understanding is based on a few articles I read a long time ago).
I'd also happily chip for any legal fund you might need.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: jolly_roger on August 19, 2014, 01:33:21 PM
See? The material was taken down to protect the listeners! So selfless. Stef has no problem with criticisms, he just won't tolerate bullies, obvs.

Dang, you beat me to it.
The funny thing is some (most?) of the videos were not even taken from listener conversations.
I'd ask how they explain that but... banhammer.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Disillusioned on August 19, 2014, 01:39:46 PM
See? The material was taken down to protect the listeners! So selfless. Stef has no problem with criticisms, he just won't tolerate bullies, obvs.

Dang, you beat me to it.
The funny thing is some (most?) of the videos were not even taken from listener conversations.
I'd ask how they explain that but... banhammer.

Yeah, same. I don't recall any listeners being attacked or bullied in Tru Shibes' videos.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BiggerThanBothofMe on August 19, 2014, 01:42:15 PM
I think it would be wise to post the Shibes videos, once they are re-uploaded elsewhere, on the front page of this site to show that they do not attack listeners. The majority are just Stef talking by himself. Call out this blatant lie.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 19, 2014, 01:45:44 PM
Lowering the tone a little here, but I wanted to draw your attention to the sad situation afflicting one respondent to Jim Jesus's video. This is an older gentleman who many will recognise as a bigger PK than the Great Man himself and a primary "undue influencer" of the young and dispirited, but his mighty thrust failed so badly that I even suspect Jim Jesus and Dr. Elvis H. Christ thought he was supporting their cause. Doh!

Can't work out how to post a screenshot worth a damn due to limited intelligence, but the comment references British TV comedyh classic 'Dad's Army'.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3918/14784559459_ba9b6deb63_m.jpg)

I had no idea if he was supporting or not so I just made a neutral joke. Thanks for pointing him out though.  :P
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 19, 2014, 01:47:11 PM
So, on the FDR forum, there is a new thread "Because people have asked...", where MMD explains, "I received messages from several listeners about their calls/images/videos from participation in our shows being used to bully them online. This was spread a cross two different channels and they asked if I could have the content removed. Going after listeners is completely unacceptable and I used the methods at my disposal to remove the material. If you attack listeners, you don't get to use any of our material. That's the line."

See? The material was taken down to protect the listeners! So selfless. Stef has no problem with criticisms, he just won't tolerate bullies, obvs.

That would be him admitting to being guilty of perjury. Cranking up Sony Vegas.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 19, 2014, 02:17:18 PM
I had no idea if he was supporting or not so I just made a neutral joke. Thanks for pointing him out though.  :P

You're welcome. I would say that your confusion as to whether the comment was supportive or not reveals the feeble-hearted conviction of this senior cult member in opposing the flood of evidence against his cause. Perhaps he'll relent?

I suppose "flood of evidence" implies a consensus fallacy on my part, but it feels good to have so many allies at last.

"Don't like it up 'em" is, as I'm sure everyone knows, an expression from WWI related to the bayoneting of enemy soldiers, which is hardly what I would have expected from such a NAP-oriented peaceful scribbler.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 19, 2014, 03:33:43 PM
(https://philosophylines.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/screen-shot-2014-08-19-at-18-51-09.png)
There it is, all pink and naked.
Here's a link to the version of FDR I just received from someone on FB.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxC_6zILAcnZZkxWLUMxSUFnU1k/edit
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: HansKarlsson on August 19, 2014, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: Michael DeMarco
I received messages from several listeners about their calls/images/videos from participation in our shows being used to bully them online.
You gotta prove it dude. You flagged all his videos, not just the few that were having snippets from conversations with listeners.
Quote from: Michael DeMarco
This was spread a cross two different channels and they asked if I could have the content removed.
What's the other youtube channel?
Quote from: Michael DeMarco
Going after listeners is completely unacceptable and I used the methods at my disposal to remove the material.
Thank god using a Glock is not at your disposal.
Quote from: Michael DeMarco
If you attack listeners, you don't get to use any of our material.
Not saying that Tru Shibes attacked any listeners, but this is in line with what Molyneux says about abusive parents. 'Nobody can abuse my children but myself!'

PS: Waiting for Molyneaux's venting on this during the next call-in show, so "we" can put everything behind and move forward toward saving the world from evil, force and abuse.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: ariellograms on August 19, 2014, 06:08:02 PM
Wouldn't one of the "methods at his disposal" be nicely asking Tru Shibes to remove the videos with the listeners in them, rather than just jumping to using "the gun in the room"? Doesn't seem very UPB, or anarchistic to me.

(I posted this from my phone, initially, and it was plagued with errors. sorry :/)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 19, 2014, 06:17:00 PM
thanks for the concern.  :)  I do not need any money or donations.  I hope they don't get to turn it into yet another money begging scheme.

I am mostly trying to strategize what would have the most impact, given their circumstances.  This is politics;  It is like playing chess.  For the time being, I think anyone that wants to can download and mirror the content in a YouTube account they won't mind losing.  Tag videos so they'd show up on search results, and see if MMD takes them down.  Then, anyone who wants to take on FDR and MMD for bogus complaints should!  If he doesn't, then they all stay up and available.   ;D

I think Youtube is ideal because they will be available for the Stef curious that are viewing his content on there.

Anyone think of anything flawed about this strategy?

My advice: hand all of this evidence of his deceit to his enemies, especially on Twitter. Blast them with links to videos, screenshots, etc, and brief summations of this supposed anarchist using the gun in the room to shut down his most vocal critics over very tenuous (well, nonexistent reasoning). He's been hopping around on Twitter trying to start fights with social media personalities to increase his own profile. Arm his enemies. I declare war.

If someone else wants to file a counter-claim on Tru Shibes behalf, that might be worth looking into to.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 19, 2014, 06:36:00 PM
Wouldn't one of the "methods at his disposal" be nicely asking Tru Shibes to remove the videos with the losteners in them, rather than just jumping to using "the gun in the room"? Doesnt seem very anarchist to me.

It would have been fine for the people complaining to file privacy complaints with YouTube, but they didn't and they didn't on their behalf. They (ab)used a government "gun."
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: marly qq on August 19, 2014, 06:36:23 PM
my contribution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9MTV2TTVjs&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9MTV2TTVjs&feature=youtu.be)

stay strong, shibes!
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Non Serviam on August 19, 2014, 06:37:31 PM
I absolutely Kompf the idea by BicameralMilieu. Stef behaves not just double but triple badly under attack, and a wide internet-haters based attack is the best way to f*ck his play up to show his true colours.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 19, 2014, 06:49:22 PM
Not saying that Tru Shibes attacked any listeners, but this is in line with what Molyneux says about abusive parents. 'Nobody can abuse my children but myself!'

And boy does he abuse them! Even MMI himself has been a target.
Molyneux has two basic modes of relating to people - sycophantic fawning or extreme condescension and, if the mood so takes him, cruel teasing [edit: because "teasing" doesn't come halfway close to my target, I have returned it to its pod and propose this brace of yeomen to take its place] ridicule and abuse.

I recall listening to one early TB (who I'm sure many will know... name begins with "N") who spoke for hours about his "issues" and sounded to be a likeable sort of fellow, but Molyneux made him his foil and was quite merciless with him, allowing himself to be convulsed with laughter at the poor man's "mistakes" or "misguided propositions" and so forth. And there were many others of course, some of whom are perhaps long time FDRL readers and posters.

I feel great empathy for these people, but rather less for those who aspire to police the compound. It seems to me that they have not been subjected to the same travails and undue personal exposure.
Also, they are not like honest doormen doing a serious job skillfully and with discretion, because they seek (in vain of course) a seat alongside their employer and boundless wages.

They are also deceived, because they have been persuaded they have special gifts and visionary powers and have ascended naturally to their rightful place.
But in reality they're tools and can be replaced in a breath with ne'er a backward glance.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 19, 2014, 07:00:25 PM
I absolutely Kompf the idea by BicameralMilieu. Stef behaves not just double but triple badly under attack, and a wide internet-haters based attack is the best way to f*ck his play up to show his true colours.

I think you are right when you say that Molyneux will become increasingly erratic under attack, but I'm a bit wary of such tactics in consideration of the longer-term goal of helping people who have submitted to his mind control techniques. Steve Hassan, cult expert, urges great caution and gentleness wherever possible because these are disoriented and often traumatised individuals who have become disconnected from reality and may be harmed if subjected to any sort of major belligerence.

Water is, after all, harder than rock.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 19, 2014, 07:08:58 PM
I declare war.

What I said above to Non Serviam. I'm not in favour of war (not that my opinion matters, I understand that) but I am in favour of speaking the truth loud and clear and exposing hypocrisy and misdeeds.
In this context I wonder whether it's time to staple an answer to QE's hanging teaser "is FDR a destructive cult" and, having finally weighed up the mountains of evidence, shout out a resounding OF COURSE in unison and settle the matter once and for all.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Non Serviam on August 19, 2014, 07:18:30 PM
Point is those deeply in the cult will not detect when Stef has been severely criticized but his mad rambling will distort the influx of coming followers. When he is monetarily low or attacked on intellectual level, he just can't stop acting badly, this badly behaving infects those deeper in the cult, because they get to see more cracks in the wall by his regular shows, he just can't keep his face.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Fedaykin on August 19, 2014, 07:18:46 PM
Well here is an interesting thing to consider scrampi, Youtube is vital to Stef's internet presence. It is the place the he often makes first contact with the wider public and future paying victims. But there are also far larger fish in the Youtube sea then Stef.

Thunderf00t has almost exactly 100 thousand more subscribers then he does and they are fass less transient. He is also friends with or at least on good terms with significant movers and shakers in the Youtube sceptical and atheist community in particular The Amazing Atheist (400 thousand more subscribers then Stef) and Ana Kasparian of the Young Turks.

As I have already mentioned Stef is already having a run in with Thunderf00t over the last few days, ref the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ7kVawy684 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ7kVawy684)

(P.S. forward to 15:23 for a rather shameless link plug for UPB  8))

Thunderf00t also has a huge crush on Ana Kasparian who has also in the last few days released a well measured but rather pointed reply to Stef:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCejv0jqbpI&list=UUPhKAfBMRI-GDozE1ldix3A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCejv0jqbpI&list=UUPhKAfBMRI-GDozE1ldix3A)

(A side note Ana calls Stef a conservative and got some of his views wrong but I put that more down to lack of knowledge about the man)

Anyhow taking on some of the biggest voices on Youtube could have serious blowback for Stef, so I would look carefully at opening up those lines of communication especially with Thunderf00t.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 19, 2014, 07:46:05 PM
....he just can't stop acting badly, this badly behaving infects those deeper in the cult, because they get to see more cracks in the wall by his regular shows, he just can't keep his face.

I hear you. I think this is happening already. The deathly silence on Molyneux's form contrasts starkly with the scope of debate occurring here and even, it seems, the level of participation. His forum is now officially a dead man walking imo (and he has killed it even though it is he who created it).
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Kaz on August 19, 2014, 08:03:23 PM
Outrageous as this is, it will become worse as Stef and co. will now milk this to play "victims" as per their m.o.  People in this thread and elsewhere have pointed out that Stef may have been able to get away with this in the past, but after being supported and validated in his fantasy castle for years, as he gets bolder and takes on more and bigger fish, what once fed him may well end up eating him.

What I understand is that an American "employee" of FDR has taken legal action alleging copyright violations which youtube responded to with their policy, which led to the taking down of the channel. were then forced under US law to act the way they did.

Does this action potentially apply to all companies that are based in the US?  Does the plaintiff have to track down every website, which will have its own policy wrt the threat of being suedthen be forced to act in the same way as youtube?  Does this mean that if you post the content on an overseas website, then it comes under different copyright laws and procedures?

edit: spelling
further edit:  Corrections in the second and third paragraphs

Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 19, 2014, 08:17:23 PM
Looks like a mirror channel is up.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXtp2ZZWZcRrhrR9ICWO71g (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXtp2ZZWZcRrhrR9ICWO71g)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: AnonymousHuman on August 19, 2014, 08:19:15 PM
Will his followers actually see this information though, if he bans people as soon as they criticize him?  How to spread the truth to those who need it the most?  You'd think that wouldn't be a problem in the digital age.

I think it would be cool for a bunch of new YT channels to open up and post Tru Shibes videos so FDR has to play whack-a-mole and can't keep up!
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: HansKarlsson on August 19, 2014, 08:20:06 PM
There are two discussions taking place in parallel here, one on 'What what to do to help Tru Shibes?', and another one on 'Why did Molyneaux do it?'. While the latter is useless, it is entertaining , so I'll take another apology swing at it.

The deathly silence on Molyneux's form contrasts starkly with the scope of debate occurring here and even, it seems, the level of participation.
Did you consider that maybe, just maybe, Molyneux is the real victim here? What if this is MMD's way of asking for a raise? "Boss, I have a negative cash flow, I can't focus any more..."
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Kaz on August 19, 2014, 08:22:46 PM

snip>I recall listening to one early TB (who I'm sure many will know... name begins with "N") who spoke for hours about his "issues" and sounded to be a likeable sort of fellow, but Molyneux made him his foil and was quite merciless with him, allowing himself to be convulsed with laughter at the poor man's "mistakes" or "misguided propositions" and so forth. And there were many others of course, some of whom are perhaps long time FDRL readers and posters. <snip

snip<But in reality they're tools and can be replaced in a breath with ne'er a backward glance.

This is scapegoating, which is vital to keep "order" in a disordered system.  The others join the scapegoating to avoid being scapegoated themselves, as well as for other benefits.  As you said, all are  used and disposable, like a tool.



Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Jim Jones on August 19, 2014, 08:26:30 PM
I think the best ideas so far have been to hopefully have thunderf00t or Ana/TYT catch wind of it and hope they maybe pick up on it. I think thunderf00t might sooner than Ana because as far as I know he hasn't given a response to Stefan's criticism of him.

I also think bombarding Joe Rogan with it may possibly work. If he did hear of it and decide to discuss it, it'd be interesting as Stefan seems to either not defend or very weakly defend his views when Joe challenged them on the last show.

Unfortunately, more likely than not, none of these people will give it much thought.

Maybe we should all keep re-posting Tru Shibes' videos (with his permission of course) and see if he keeps trying to take them down?

I have a question for those of you more knowledgeable than myself...is there a long, arduous process in filing these DMCA claims for each video, or is it simply as easy as clicking through a few bubbles on a webpage?
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Kaz on August 19, 2014, 08:27:44 PM
Point is those deeply in the cult will not detect when Stef has been severely criticized but his mad rambling will distort the influx of coming followers. When he is monetarily low or attacked on intellectual level, he just can't stop acting badly, this badly behaving infects those deeper in the cult, because they get to see more cracks in the wall by his regular shows, he just can't keep his face.

The cognitive dissonance echoing around that silent cavern must be deafening.

Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Kaz on August 19, 2014, 08:40:17 PM

<snip>

I have a question for those of you more knowledgeable than myself...is there a long, arduous process in filing these DMCA claims for each video, or is it simply as easy as clicking through a few bubbles on a webpage?

Also how expensive is it?

It is quite common for groups that are considered cults, once they have become established and have the means to do so to use legal threats to silence their critics.  Scientologists are well known for this, but there are many internet grown cults that aggressively and relentlessly persue the same tactic.

Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 19, 2014, 08:50:07 PM
Tru Shibes Molyneux Archive:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6XYPDMA6reWpcjsJ8LF0Nk_m-peKVHV9 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6XYPDMA6reWpcjsJ8LF0Nk_m-peKVHV9)

Stef and MMD, in order to be consistent, will have to file more copyright claims.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 19, 2014, 08:56:11 PM
Oh boy,

Thunderfoot re-posted Jim Jesus's MMD takedown on Twitter: https://twitter.com/thunderf00t

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice. Hi-fives everyone!
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 19, 2014, 09:19:43 PM
And lots of commotion on the anarcho-capitalist subreddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/2dyqkz/freedomain_radio_apparantly_terminated_trushibes/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/2dyqkz/freedomain_radio_apparantly_terminated_trushibes/)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: QuestEon on August 19, 2014, 09:45:47 PM
I absolutely Kompf the idea by BicameralMilieu. Stef behaves not just double but triple badly under attack, and a wide internet-haters based attack is the best way to f*ck his play up to show his true colours.
Just a quick opinion on tone. I know you didn't mean it literally but I believe that hate is only successful in creating more hate. And no one every remembers who started the fight, they just avoid the fighters. So, I'm not really big on attack either (as angry as I am about this).

For several years, my attitude has been--stand tall, be fair, tell the truth, and just let people know there's a bully down the street. They can decide if they want to go any further or not.

It's the long road, to be sure, but I have to say I've been happily astonished with the results.

I'm hoping that--worst case--there is a host similar to YouTube (Vimeo, maybe?) where POS can permanently house the videos. They are wonderful things to use as linking reference.

P.S.

I think you're right about how Molyneux reacts when he loses control over his narrative. I heard that when he was exposed by the UK Guardian, he absolutely freaked.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 19, 2014, 10:13:34 PM
I'm with QuestEon about hate, but I think getting people like TF and Justicar pointing this out can really get the word out about what he's doing that's a clear contradiction. TF has a big following and is well versed in the YouTube and the DMCA having delt with it before. Justicar is very good about explaining law.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: asaucerfulofsecrets on August 19, 2014, 10:25:09 PM
I have a question for those of you more knowledgeable than myself...is there a long, arduous process in filing these DMCA claims for each video, or is it simply as easy as clicking through a few bubbles on a webpage?

It looks like a fairly easy to do procedure.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2807622?hl=en&ref_topic=2778544
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: asaucerfulofsecrets on August 19, 2014, 10:34:36 PM
^If you want to see how EASY it is to file a claim go to this link, click file claim, choose copyright option on first bubble set, click "my company/org/client", and then the rest shows up with a few more check boxes and an electronic signature request. Note the red section toward the very bottom "UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY".

That's how easy it is...
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: eternal bias on August 19, 2014, 10:39:22 PM
Fight him in court like Thunderf00t did.

Look what he made Venomfangx do when Venomfangx filed a false DMCA.  He sued him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_MYyc-PtH4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_MYyc-PtH4)

Filing a false DMCA is illegal.  If you don't fight it you are giving him carte blanche to silence all criticism.  You're aiding him in his fight against sanity if you don't try to stop him.  Not only that your videos were very helpful in showing people what a nutball he is.  Without those videos even more people are going to join his cult.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 19, 2014, 10:41:44 PM
Fight him in court like Thunderf00t did.

Look what he made Venomfangx do when Venomfangx filed a false DMCA.  He sued him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_MYyc-PtH4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_MYyc-PtH4)

Filing a false DMCA is illegal.  If you don't fight it you are giving him carte blanche to silence all criticism.  You're aiding him in his fight against sanity if you don't try to stop him.  Not only that your videos were very helpful in showing people what a nutball he is.  Without those videos even more people are going to join his cult.



I'm sorta, kinda serious about "I declare war" but really, they've abused this DMCA system by filing multiple claims under fallacious motives. I understand the anonymity issue but if there were a way to have a counter-claim filed, proving their abuse, FDR could go kaput! And I'd clap.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: QuestEon on August 19, 2014, 10:44:11 PM
I'm with QuestEon about hate, but I think getting people like TF and Justicar pointing this out can really get the word out about what he's doing that's a clear contradiction. TF has a big following and is well versed in the YouTube and the DMCA having delt with it before. Justicar is very good about explaining law.
Oh, I agree. And I think your video was spot-on.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Kaz on August 19, 2014, 11:01:16 PM
Re hate:  I think that it is best to point out what is going on and defend yourself in an objective, even and calm manner, no matter how outraged you may feel.  If you act too much on your emotions and get into hating, revenge etc, then you become embroiled in an even more unpleasant situation, are easily manipulated and may even unwittinly act to divert justice. 

Thinking more about this situation:  Molyneux has been able to get away with so much by simply reframing issues, which he maintains control over.  He and his followers have become used to thinking and doing things this way and have to a large extent gotten away with it.  Apparently MMDM thinks nothing of reframing a copyright issue as something else: The FDR false accusation of "abuse" and "protecting their listeners". 

This time, however, they have more directly involved the law,* (or perhaps I should say more egregiously abused it) which shows much more than their usual arrogance.  Those who apply the law can be very stern to those who attempt to use the law as their own personal weapon.  They also don't like people redefining the law to suit themselves either, nor will they tolerate people attempting to use the letter of the law to violate the spirit of the law.

edit: * not sure how much they involved the law with their attempt to shut down Liberating Minds.  My point is that they have become even more bold with their tactics.

Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 19, 2014, 11:37:38 PM
Looks like the BuzzFeed article has updated to mention the DMCAs and his hypocrisy.

Quote
19/08/2014 - UPDATE: Molyneux, a man who claims he does not believe in intellectual property, had two videos linked in this piece removed, claiming copyright infringement. Luckily, I anticipated it, and wrote down what he said! Both removed videos have now been replaced with quotes of what he said. Enjoy!
- PD


http://www.buzzfeed.com/pauliedoyle/holy-moly-wrn8 (http://www.buzzfeed.com/pauliedoyle/holy-moly-wrn8)   8)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Anarchist on August 20, 2014, 12:21:45 AM
I think I know what MMD was talking about when referring to attacking listeners. There was another channel that was DMCAd by FDR. In the new Molyneux subreddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/molyneux), there are posts like "ANR [name shortened for Google] Exposed! 'I Boned a 61 Year Old Man' FDR Caller".

I can't access it now, but in the discussion section of that guy's YouTube channel, he was making angry threats to post all the Ask A Therapist podcasts and to reveal things about people, which was reiterated in a reddit post (http://www.reddit.com/r/molyneux/comments/2e1c9k/michael_demarcos_response_to_dmca_takedowns/). The Ask A Therapist videos posted on that channel had a rotating slide show of FDR barbecue photos with obscene comments on the slide pictures of similar taste, verbally attacking listeners.

I think that MMD or Stefan found out about those threats to reveal things and so on, and then acted upon that. It certainly doesn't explain the DMCAing of Tru Shibes, since that's a different channel without that sort of vulgarity.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 20, 2014, 12:27:50 AM
That's terrible if true, but that was not Tru Shibes.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Anarchist on August 20, 2014, 12:39:38 AM
Yeah, it wasn't. They probably used their special psychological mind reading powers to determine the two channels were run by the same person, even though they oddly exhibited very different behaviors. I mean, they both put text over pictures in the video, so they've got to be the same thing, right?
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 20, 2014, 12:44:31 AM
The
I think I know what MMD was talking about when referring to attacking listeners. There was another channel that was DMCAd by FDR. In the new Molyneux subreddit ([url]http://www.reddit.com/r/molyneux[/url]), there are posts like "ANR Exposed! 'I Boned a 61 Year Old Man' FDR Caller".

I can't access it now, but in the discussion section of that guy's YouTube channel, he was making angry threats to post all the Ask A Therapist podcasts and to reveal things about people, which was reiterated in a reddit post ([url]http://www.reddit.com/r/molyneux/comments/2e1c9k/michael_demarcos_response_to_dmca_takedowns/[/url]). The Ask A Therapist videos posted on that channel had a rotating slide show of FDR barbecue photos with obscene comments on the slide pictures of similar taste, verbally attacking listeners.

I think that MMD or Stefan found out about those threats to reveal things and so on, and then acted upon that. It certainly doesn't explain the DMCAing of Tru Shibes, since that's a different channel without that sort of vulgarity.


The plot thickens. Still no justification for lashing out indiscriminately or using the legal force of State for harassment problems.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Anarchist on August 20, 2014, 12:58:17 AM
I've thought about it some more, and I'd like to analyze something.
However,
Instead,
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Anarchist on August 20, 2014, 02:52:09 AM
Some more details from YouTube comments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb9XrSc4Uhw&google_comment_id=z12tiljwapmvzhtrc04cd15i1oylhllz22c):

Quote from: Waleed
There is somebody running around, digging up information on people, and harassing them and their families. The person who precipitated all of this had dug up information on an FDR member, obtained pictures of his toddler-aged niece, and threatened to deface the pictures pornographically.

Two other female callers who had revealed vast amounts of information about their respective sexual histories were also threatened. One had her entire family contacted.

In defense of FDR, they are doing what they can as quickly as they can to protect callers and preserve the integrity of their show. It's a shame there is not another mechanism in place, but you have to make due with what you have. If somebody vandalizes your house, you still have to call the police.

Quote from: Waleed
+Kirsten Tynan Quite possibly an overreaction. MMD probably didn't watch every single video the guy put up to see which ones had callers and which didn't. Fact of the matter is, this was done as a way to protect callers from an extremely adversarial individual willing to f*ck with the images of children.

As I said, it's not a perfect solution, but you make do with what you have. If a crime happens, you go to the authorities because that's who's available at this point in time.

Quote from: Waleed
The podcasts featuring listeners are not just simple reposts. They featured commentary as well. In one of the videos, the user on one of the banned accounts had obtained several photos of an FDR member/listener with his 2-3 year old niece. In the video, the user begins to slander the member as a pedophile.

He also had a copy of the listener's real name and threatened to spread the video as far and wide as possible so it would be at the top of the Google results should anybody look up his name there. This is serious business.

MMD went after the troll and the troll then doubled down, obtaining the information of MMD, his wife, and two female members of the FDR message board. He began contacting the families of all the people he had dug up info on.

Maybe MMD went scattershot and had every video taken down on every channel that features listener conversations, or perhaps he suspected they were the same people. I don't know. Point is this isn't just FDR witch-hunting people who criticize them. There was a very serious pretext for the events that have unfolded.

People won't call into the show if they believe there are extremely malicious people lurking in the background looking to ruin their lives with the personal information shared on the show.

This fits with what I saw on the discussion pane of the other YouTube channel that was DMCAed. Abusive language and threatening to reveal personal information.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Token Nazi on August 20, 2014, 03:34:45 AM
Well, that was a clever reframe. Now Stefan can tell all of his followers about the nasty abusive people outside of FDR, how the willingness to stoop to paedophilia, the worst form of child abuse, shows that his enemies are re-enacting their childhood traumas against him, and how this just proves that FDR is the greatest beacon of truth in the world. He would be stupid not to say this.

The first rule of public relations is to get your narrative out there first. He will be able to prime all of the members of his audience who haven't yet seen any of the videos.

If Stefan really has been going back and editing his videos, and PoS has used the edited videos in his own, then Stef could point out the evidence of his own editing as proof that other people are maliciously doctoring the evidence, and that they can't be trusted.

And boy does he abuse them! Even MMI himself has been a target.

Who is MMI?
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: HansKarlsson on August 20, 2014, 04:17:33 AM
OK, let me get everybody up to speed. As I understand MMDM took down this guy's (http://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/2dvikj/does_fdr_endorse_ip/cjty0yv) channel when some listeners complained of bulling and in the same time took down Tru Shibes's channel too, on the principle "if you have a gun, why not use it?". After that MMDM posted a "Because people have asked..." thread (http://nullreferrer.com/r/?https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41437-because-people-have-asked/) on the FDR board where he said he took down two YouTube channels because they were bullying the listeners.

Now, I'm sure people were asking MMDM about the videos where listeners were bullied too, and not only about Tru Shibes's videos, right? :D That's why MMDM makes no distinction between the two, because I'm sure all of the questions were about Tru Shibes's videos (mirror here (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXtp2ZZWZcRrhrR9ICWO71g)). They framed this to begin with, now it's time for Molyneaux to offer a 30 min rant on it during the next call-in show. Geniuses! As much as I've tried, would not have guessed this plan in a million years.

Tru Shibes's videos were only about Molyneaux, with two exceptions, which were about MMDM himself... this summer's hit "MMD's 'I Haz a Dream' Speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WLAZlNfkl4)" included 8). Who knows, maybe MMDM felt bullied in his double quality, show organizer and bootlic listener.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Jim Jones on August 20, 2014, 04:31:42 AM
I've thought about it some more, and I'd like to analyze something.
  • MMD says "I received messages from several listeners about their calls/images/videos from participation in our shows being used to bully them online."
  • Apparently, if a third party bullies using a video, it gets removed regardless of how that impacts the innocent party who posted the video (accounts closed and so on).
  • I suppose they'd claim they would remove an FDR podcast from his channel and server if a listener later wanted them removed, and that this was a way of doing that with other copies of the material than those in their control.

However,
  • They didn't work with Tru Shibes to ensure that no heavy adverse consequences came about (account closure and so on) to an innocent party (Tru Shibes wasn't the bully).
  • They didn't contest only that content that was used to bully, they contested video after video after video.
  • They didn't attempt to contact Tru Shibes to arrange that a video being used to bully be taken down or altered.

Instead,
  • They use a stupid and heavy-handed, destructive way of accomplishing something.
  • They leapt at an opportunity to shutter a YouTuber that criticized them incisively.
  • They removed the content in a cowardly manner, fearful of talking with the infidels.
  • They didn't work afterwards to restore the unnecessary damage they did.
  • Did they remove the content from their channel or servers? Linking to their version of it would still work if not.


I completely agree.

Does anyone think MMD would post an apology to Tru Shibes if he is confronted with the information that the Tru Shibes channel was in no way related to this other guy?

Of course, that's assuming it truly was an accident, which is practically impossible.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Token Nazi on August 20, 2014, 04:55:42 AM
huh?  what?  You do know that his videos are downloaded by lots of people don't you?   ::)
If he changes them, lots of copies of the old version would still be out there.

the videos highlight and criticize about 2-5 minutes of a 3-4 hour podcast that is released.  are you saying he would go back and mess with that part at some later date?

I was just thinking out loud based on the possibility suggested by Jim Jones that he has in fact re-dubbed past videos.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 20, 2014, 05:52:42 AM
Who is MMI?

I'm so sorry TN, MMI is just me teasing MMD / MMDM (Michael M. DeMarco) because MMI is a widely-used acronym for "man-machine interface"
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 20, 2014, 06:21:24 AM
I remembered Prodigal Son posting on this board about that guy's videos.

I did share two of his videos here but I think I made a strong disclaimer concerning the written comments that someone had superimposed. They were not to my taste, offensively worded and, in one case, accusatory. I was interested merely in hearing the Therapist podcast, although (because of my involvement) I did have a prurient interest I suppose in seeing the photos, all of which I had already seen (but without the offending captions).

I have to say that I strongly objected to two of the captions if I recall, one of which offended, with no possible justification, a lady identified as MMDM's wife while the other made a claim of sexual relations between Mr Molyneux and another woman to whom he is not married. That second one seemed to me to be the most outrageous and unfair comment: I hope all thinking people who have seen it will consider the allegation to be absolutely unfounded and of no relevance whatsoever (and that whoever has made it please desist from such public disclosure of private matters, whether real or imagined).

Some of the other comments were quite funny and far milder, but the choice to publish photos together with them seemed to me to be poorly thought out and quite unfair (except - my view - in regard to Molyneux himself and, arguably, James Pyrich in his role as FDR staff).

All considered, I am in favour of MMDM's action in regard to that channel (although I would like the AaT podcasts to be publicly available - after all, they were used for public therapy sessions that affected members of the public).

None of all this, however, has anything to do with the Tru Shibes Co., which has sometimes been a bit cheeky in its screen comments, although mainly by simply adding large numbers of question marks and other such punctuation to sentences uttered by Mr Molyneux, but has never (to my knowledge) engaged in any kind of slander, revealed any private information, or made unsupported claims.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 20, 2014, 08:04:26 AM
Just one more and then I'll shut up - and to avoid restating it constantly, I know there are probably some opinions below that might raise an eyebrow or furrow a brow, but I'm not reading any main books except the Bible from time to time, and I don't understand some parts of that one.

I do want to state very clearly that the sole and ultimate responsibility for the outcomes and endeavours of FDR lies with Stefan Basil Molyneux. I can make this claim in confidence, because FDR is Mr Molyneux and its product is the workings of his mind. He is not a researcher - as we have come to recognise - but rather, in his estimation, a "thinker" and a very deep thinker at that. Far deeper than any of us can hope to delve. So he has set up the business of selling philosophy and he has made very good money at it.

That's why I shared the second AaT video, this time on the public part of this forum because the most egregious comment was no longer visible (as I recall - impossible to check of course).
On this section, Mr Molyneux clearly states, in the gravest of tones, that "the job of a real philosopher is never paid".
This is correct I think, because if philosophy can be purchased then it can be put to work and its master (whoever purchases) will rule its subjects. Even paying $50/month seems to entitle the payers to some kind of special personal consideration and permit them to set themselves apart from those who choose not to contribute.
Another philosopher who, like Mr Molyneux, accepted payment for his thinking was Martin Heidegger (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/9782024/Philosophys-shameful-love-for-the-swastika.html).

That's why a true philosopher must live among the community in harmony, because this is a geezer who likes to think a lot and might not have too much free time on his hands to plant beans and fix the shed and wotnot, ending up in a very poorly disposition with regard to matters of the exchequer and quite unable to even purchase a modest bottle of this or that.

Given this tearful state of affairs, at the very least such a man would tend to foster good relations in his community... some solid support here and there. If you regard him fondly and don't mind hearing what he has to say from time to time, you might hire a fellow to fix a fence if he is cheap and a reasonable workman, even though you find you have him in for supper and breakfast as well and the fence-fixing is a longer job than anticipated because it required a lot of chattering to clear up some seemingly unrelated matters before beginning, but you will not act likewise towards a blackguard.

Didn't Socrates reportedly speak for food? He was in the public square so he had to ensure some measure of benevolence, though like so many truth-speakers he reportedly relinquished his life for his offence to unjust rulers (no just ruler may harm a truth-speaker).

The other persons associated with Mr Molyneux's thinking - perhaps with the exception of his wife, although her culpability vs ingenuity is hard to estimate - are all victims to a greater or lesser extent of his unethical and delusory activity and should be held harmless in the main and assisted wherever possible, and I even include MMDM and his associates, although they are to be reprimanded somewhat in my view.

Even Stefan himself is a victim of his own defective brain, but he is impervious to outside help and must heal himself if he is able.

[edited to correct wonky syntax]
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Fedaykin on August 20, 2014, 08:56:03 AM
As long as this video is never taken down it creases me up with laughter every time!

 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr2P5VBl14w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr2P5VBl14w)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 20, 2014, 09:43:53 AM
As long as this video is never taken down it creases me up with laughter every time!

Hilarious also because true. The only questionable act is Stefan's in using this young woman's plight to further his aims. She is hardly audible here and I'm not in the slightest interested anyway, although the cult does encourage voyeurism.

If she was not a cult member she was perhaps a little ingenuous in speaking so freely and I'm sure she regretted it later and might issue a justrifiable takedown request against FDR and hence also the reposter? If she was/is a member she is a victim of the mind control techniques used unfairly by Mr Molyneux (and anyone else who uses such methods of persuasion) and may likewise request that the material be removed, it having been established that Mr Molyneux is acting fraudulently.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Fedaykin on August 20, 2014, 10:00:19 AM
I like to imagine this is like some fantasy future where his followers have cloned/restored his body their new saviour and he is in his castle up a tower on the Moon. The sound of hymns echoing in the background is his followers singing praise whilst holding their copies of UPB...

It would be kind of like this comedy sketch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icTrzUuWlHI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icTrzUuWlHI)

Just imagine they are saying "Molyneux" rather then "Vectron".
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Token Nazi on August 20, 2014, 10:15:33 AM
Another philosopher who, like Mr Molyneux, accepted payment for his thinking was Martin Heidegger ([url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/9782024/Philosophys-shameful-love-for-the-swastika.html[/url]).


Comparing him to Heidegger is an enormous insult to Heidegger.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 20, 2014, 11:07:53 AM
Comparing him to Heidegger is an enormous insult to Heidegger.

That is almost certainly so, but Heidegger has no need of this comparison to tarnish his own reputation. From the little I know he was considered to be very good before he become so closely linked with the national socialists and supportive of their agenda. I seem to remember there was some bedroom business connected with it, but I may be quite wrong about that.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 20, 2014, 04:03:43 PM
That thread on FDR is stirring up a lot of criticism about using the DMCA even a Gold member weighing in about how they are doing the wrong thing. They're pointing out how Tru didn't post what they're saying they post and are upset with the conflation between the two.

Also I've been getting some comments about how I should go on the show and I can't think of anything else I'd rather not do. I don't agree with most radio talk show hosts, but you don't see me calling them, it's a format designed to be lopsided especially with Moly's show. "Sorry to interrupt... but what was your childhood like?" All of my nope.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Elucidated on August 20, 2014, 04:19:05 PM
That thread on FDR is stirring up a lot of criticism about using the DMCA even a Gold member weighing in about how they are doing the wrong thing. They're pointing out how Tru didn't post what they're saying they post and are upset with the conflation between the two.

Also I've been getting some comments about how I should go on the show and I can't think of anything else I'd rather not do. I don't agree with most radio talk show hosts, but you don't see me calling them, it's a format designed to be lopsided especially with Moly's show. "Sorry to interrupt... but what was your childhood like?" All of my nope.

Telling people to call in to the show is a common response from TB's as they are unable to argue Stefan's position themselves, and know that his smoke and mirrors techniques will confuse people out of their position. You are wise to stay clear

Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 20, 2014, 05:31:24 PM
I think they might be others here better qualified to answer this because I only attended once, but here goes:

How many BBQ's were there and when did it stop?

I think (i.e. I'm not too well-informed) 2011 was the first one held outside the family home (at least for the larger group) due to the rise in numbers. Before that I think there was one every year from 1996 (or was it 1995?).
After 2011 I don't know what went on except that 2012 (I think) was skipped (I might be a year off in my calculations).

Were those pictures used in that other channel's videos pictures that were freely circulated or posted, and therefore easy to obtain?

I seem to remember they were posted (by Molyneux/James) on a donor-only section of the forum - can someone confirm?  Anyone who went or was friendly with those who attended could obtain copies / take their own easily.
They'll have to start confiscating phones and cameras at this rate (for copyright issues ::)).
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 20, 2014, 05:57:14 PM
That thread on FDR is stirring up a lot of criticism about using the DMCA even a Gold member weighing in about how they are doing the wrong thing. They're pointing out how Tru didn't post what they're saying they post and are upset with the conflation between the two.

Also I've been getting some comments about how I should go on the show and I can't think of anything else I'd rather not do. I don't agree with most radio talk show hosts, but you don't see me calling them, it's a format designed to be lopsided especially with Moly's show. "Sorry to interrupt... but what was your childhood like?" All of my nope.

James P writes: "They shot first. That is very, very important. Mike was not initiating aggression. He was acting in self-defense on the behalf of those listeners.

If the channel owners were open to reasonable requests, they never would have made these videos in the first place. It would not have even occurred to them to do so."

What? Huh? Reasonable requests? They didn't contact Shibes at all, as he states on his FB page. No warning, nothing, just wam bam, get out the door ma'am. Oh, sorry about that? We'll put the gun down and hope this all just goes away. This James guy, one of Stef's looooooooong time jersey chasers, is disgustingly disingenuous here.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Disillusioned on August 20, 2014, 06:12:24 PM
That thread on FDR is stirring up a lot of criticism about using the DMCA even a Gold member weighing in about how they are doing the wrong thing. They're pointing out how Tru didn't post what they're saying they post and are upset with the conflation between the two.

Also I've been getting some comments about how I should go on the show and I can't think of anything else I'd rather not do. I don't agree with most radio talk show hosts, but you don't see me calling them, it's a format designed to be lopsided especially with Moly's show. "Sorry to interrupt... but what was your childhood like?" All of my nope.

James P writes: "They shot first. That is very, very important. Mike was not initiating aggression. He was acting in self-defense on the behalf of those listeners.

If the channel owners were open to reasonable requests, they never would have made these videos in the first place. It would not have even occurred to them to do so."

What? Huh? Reasonable requests? They didn't contact Shibes at all, as he states on his FB page. No warning, nothing, just wam bam, get out the door ma'am. Oh, sorry about that? We'll put the gun down and hope this all just goes away. This James guy, one of Stef's looooooooong time jersey chasers, is disgustingly disingenuous here.

It's a pathetic attempt to justify the behavior by painting the critics as unreasonable. They psychically know that the offenders are completely unreasonable, bc otherwise, why would they make videos criticizing Stef? FWIW, I'm pretty sure James is being sincere. He just doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 20, 2014, 06:16:30 PM
<sarcasm> If they mock and critique the savior of philosophy they're clearly unreasonable. How can you be be reasoned with if you want to stop the progress of philosophy?</sarcasm>
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 20, 2014, 06:23:39 PM
More to the point, no one shot a damn thing except the fellow who posted those slurs and photos I mentioned.

I have no idea who he is and he didn't post them here. I was the only one who did that, once in the members-only section and once publicly (without, I repeat, the most egregious slur). My reasoning is that they were publicly available and my motivation was to comment on the withdrawn AaT podcasts.

It is good that FDR took them down: I do want them in an undoctored version without images however because they were offered as public counseling sessions and they affected people's decisions at the time and thereafter. The people depicted in the photographs are irrelevant except Molyneux and, perhaps, James.

Perhaps, however, we might consider the possibility of a false flag attack against this site, if so, it is a trap towards which my ill-considered action has left our flank open to reasonable criticism, but not so for Tru Shibes,  which channel seems to me to be quite extraneous to the whole affair.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: marly qq on August 20, 2014, 06:31:15 PM
James P writes: "They shot first. That is very, very important. Mike was not initiating aggression. He was acting in self-defense on the behalf of those listeners.

If the channel owners were open to reasonable requests, they never would have made these videos in the first place. It would not have even occurred to them to do so."

youtube has flagging options for abuse/harassment. shouldn't they have  (or maybe they did?) used those options instead of claiming copyright infringement , which is a totally separate matter. am i missing something here??
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Disillusioned on August 20, 2014, 06:33:10 PM
James P writes: "They shot first. That is very, very important. Mike was not initiating aggression. He was acting in self-defense on the behalf of those listeners.

If the channel owners were open to reasonable requests, they never would have made these videos in the first place. It would not have even occurred to them to do so."

youtube has flagging options for abuse/harassment. shouldn't they have  (or maybe they did?) used those options instead of claiming copyright infringement , which is a totally separate matter. am i missing something here??

Exactly.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: marly qq on August 20, 2014, 07:03:06 PM
anarchopac just put out a video on the matter. he covers the issue very well

http://www.youtu.be/e0cgEhzSDL8 (http://www.youtu.be/e0cgEhzSDL8)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Ted Logan on August 20, 2014, 09:45:33 PM
Just found something interesting on reddit, it's a post from the guy who ran the other channel that got the DMCA, freedomain damon I think it was called. Here's a link-

http://www.reddit.com/r/molyneux/comments/2e4ndw/you_cant_do_this_this_is_bullying_baaaaawwwww/ (http://nullrefer.com/?http://www.reddit.com/r/molyneux/comments/2e4ndw/you_cant_do_this_this_is_bullying_baaaaawwwww/)

And here's what it said, it's the kind of crap that's probably what you'd expect if you saw the captions from his AaT bbq vids.

"The white knight has strode in once again to fight what he believes to be 'bullying'. Michael Demarco is a particularly pathetic man. He married a 300 pound woman with piercings, tattoos, dyed hair, etc.
Perhaps he is acting out his inner need to be a hero onto the internet because he is truly weak inside. Perhaps he wasn't too happy about me contacting his wife's father. Who knows. What I do know is these DMCA takedowns aren't going to work.
Stay tuned for continued uploads of the Ask a Therapist series and other videos."


Uncool Damon :(

edit: added nullrefer to link
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 21, 2014, 12:21:58 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxT24kBnHD0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxT24kBnHD0)

As did Philosophy Lines. I guess we can wrap up the UPB debate now.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: BicameralMilieu on August 21, 2014, 05:56:40 PM
Stefan is presently on the Joe Rogan show. They touched on the DMCA drama and Stefan tells Rogan that the takedowns were not about copyright but about protecting their listeners' from bullies. He has just confirmed that he did this for frivolous reasons and I would like nothing more than to see him be drug before the black robe. He also lied about his wife's reprimand when that briefly came up.

On the board, there's some intense disagreement, with DZACK and JohnH really setting flames to some curtains in the dorm room. People are really stooping to sloppy reasoning to justify this crap: https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41437-because-people-have-asked/page-2 (http://nullrefer.com/?https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41437-because-people-have-asked/page-2)


Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: HansKarlsson on August 21, 2014, 06:01:10 PM
Joe Rogan (http://www.ustream.tv/joerogan) grilled Molyneaux today, on the banning subject too (about one hour in). However, he didn't know that Molyneaux actually used the excuse that some guy was stalking (or whatever he was doing, I didn't see those videos) his listeners, to ban some other criticism of him that is totally unrelated to his listeners.

Specifically, Molyneaux would have to explain why he shoot down Tru Shibes' channel, for now he's just throwing it in a mix with the other channel too. He said he fully supports MMDM's decision.

Joe Rogan got some of Molyneaux main arguments destroyed, like one country wouldn't attack another if the country to be attacked doesn't have a tax system in place. Resources are a very valid reason. He also got Molyneaux to retract his crocodile tears from the The Truth About Robin Williams (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diyuAXzN7yo) video, where he blamed Robin's suicide on women's addition to free stuff. Very impressed with Joe, I think if he's able to see through Molyneaux's bullshit. I don't expect him to do it for each video, but he made clear and justified remarks on where some of Molyneaux's flaws are. He didn't get into donations, but he also inspected the "defoo everything" concept Molyneaux promotes. Molyneaux's got to explain his fair point on defooing abusive people, however, there's much more to understand on how his followers get to see abuse where there's no abuse, how they reject newcomers who say "but my parents were nice", how he says all parents are bad, how he tell donators who spanked their children "not to be harsh on yourself" while in the same time tell them to cut the relationships with their abusive parents, how he guilt people into donating and bully the ones making small donations... and so on. Molyneaux said a few times he was happy to have this kind of conversations because he doesn't talk much about them. That's because he bans people who raise the subjects on his forum... all while in the same time he says he's moving such subjects up the call-in show waiting list.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: HansKarlsson on August 21, 2014, 06:04:39 PM
On the board, there's some intense disagreement, with DZACK and JohnH really setting flames to some curtains in the dorm room. People are really stooping to sloppy reasoning to justify this crap: ****board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41437-because-people-have-asked/page-2
I urge you to post nullreferrer.com/r/? in front of your url, as follows: http://nullreferrer.com/r/?https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41437-because-people-have-asked/page-2 (http://nullreferrer.com/r/?https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41437-because-people-have-asked/page-2)
It's known that the administrators of the FDR board track the traffic who's coming from this site and ban based on the IP address.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: QuestEon on August 21, 2014, 06:10:37 PM
On the board, there's some intense disagreement, with DZACK and JohnH really setting flames to some curtains in the dorm room. People are really stooping to sloppy reasoning to justify this crap: ****board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41437-because-people-have-asked/page-2
I urge you to post nullreferrer.com/r/? in front of your url, as follows: [url]http://nullreferrer.com/r/?https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41437-because-people-have-asked/page-2[/url] ([url]http://nullreferrer.com/r/?https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/41437-because-people-have-asked/page-2[/url])
It's known that the administrators of the FDR board track the traffic who's coming from this site and ban based on the IP address.


I just edited it. I need to make a general post about that again.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Argent on August 21, 2014, 11:29:01 PM
The way to prove your True Believerness is to not engage in arguments on the board, ever. Just toss in a flippant remark and be done with it. If you get into arguments with others, it shows that you are not entirely confident in your beliefs, and you should probably be on a therapist's couch rather than the forums, until you work through your internal strife.

Of course, you have a valid reason for doing/saying everything you do, and if anyone dares to question you on that, they are rude and should probably be shunned out of the community. You are a True Believer who has been blessed by Molyneux, after all. And they're some average Joe with an axe to grind.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: HansKarlsson on August 22, 2014, 04:21:24 AM
The way to prove your True Believerness is to not engage in arguments on the board, ever. Just toss in a flippant remark and be done with it. If you get into arguments with others, it shows that you are not entirely confident in your beliefs, and you should probably be on a therapist's couch rather than the forums, until you work through your internal strife.

Of course, you have a valid reason for doing/saying everything you do, and if anyone dares to question you on that, they are rude and should probably be shunned out of the community. You are a True Believer who has been blessed by Molyneux, after all. And they're some average Joe with an axe to grind.
Such a great description of what's taking place on the FDR board. It's really painful to read through those comments. Some genuinely curious users trying to obtain logical explanations while the True Believers are all emotional and can't present basic arguments which to support. Maybe because daddy didn't teach them how, but once they learn, they are outta there. Here are some examples (of course, all of them quoted out of context :-\):
Quote from: a True Believer
I'm finding your constant requesting for clarification here and on a similar thread to be quite annoying eudaimon.
All the clarification you need is within Mikes post. This aint rocket science and doesn't require a full and open discussion regarding the actual details. Much of which are now unavailable, as is the norm with most take downs. So please stop.
Quote from: a True Believer
Even if Michael did "violate the NAP" by forcibly removing someone else's property, it doesn't bother me one bit.  Not one freaking bit.  Why, because those internet trolls had it coming.  They are offensive, rotten, despicable losers who offer nothing to the world.  All that matters is how I feel about the people I associate with.  I associate with FDR.  I have no personal problem with what Michael did.  So, in a free society, he still gets my dollar.  That's all there is.  You buy it or you don't.
Quote from: a True Believer
To this I will just say, if you don't think MMD is holding himself to his own ethical standards then you are free to go find someone who does.  He gave you an explanation as to why he did what he did.  What else is there to do?  You are judge and jury.  Make your decision and move on.  I've made mine.
Quote from: a True Believer
In this situation.  After looking at the evidence and the details of the case myself, I have decided that I have no problem with what MMD did and I will continue to support the community.  Did he violate NAP?  Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.  You guys can argue that all day.  I can just use my intuition.  FDR still gets my dollar.
Quote from: a True Believer
I think it's much more accurate to say, "Because you didn't have a negative emotional reaction to what the YouTube user FreeDomainDamon was doing, you're not convinced by the explanation, 'They shot first.'"
Once you explain it THAT way, though, you're "forced" to explain why you didn't have a negative emotional reaction.  I'm not saying you SHOULD HAVE had an extraordinarily negative reaction.  But I am saying that, without explaining why you didn't have one, your intellectual-argument above seems to be just-one-more-example of John H. having no emotional reactions.
Also, the followers are very passive-aggressive, trying at each step to shift the burden of proof. Not to say about MMDM's passive-aggressive first post, "Because people have asked..." otherwise we wouldn't f*cking bother with this sort of crap, it's for you slaves.

I'm wondering if Molyneaux has to click-open each post his TBs voted down in order to read them, or he has some special capabilities and those don't get hidden from him? Or he only sees the hidden ones? I would donate to get all the posts displayed by default, otherwise I miss posts at times and lose track of the discussion.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: marly qq on August 23, 2014, 06:34:13 AM
another voice has a say on the matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp-j1WzmkLw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp-j1WzmkLw)
Quote
Description:
Stefan Molyneux appears to have not just committed aggression by invoking copyright law but also may have engaged in fraud on two occasions. Stefan should negotiate with his victims and make them whole if they can prove that he caused them quantifiable damage.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 23, 2014, 07:04:44 AM
Those videos made by Tru Shibes must have been quite odious to Mr Molyneux if we consider that he has shown no hesitation in exploding his entire philosophical position in order to remove them.

It's not surprising: it is a known fact that there is some distance to travel between Steffy's stated beliefs and Mr Molyneux's actual practices. It may be a local bus ride and no more than that, but often the traveller will need to take sandwiches, perhaps a tent, and maybe purchase an airline ticket in several instances that we all know well.

Of course there are some distances that will require some form of space travel not currently available to humans, unless you believe in all that moon landing nonsense, in which case you probably think that we could just build a rocket and fly up there to see the location of his more controversial stances.

To have these vastly different positions displayed side-by-side and explained each time in Mr Molyneux's own words or through his actions is not something that he could possibly be expected to contemplate, and so he has "lashed out", as he would have it, and is currently sulking.

Since the videos are all now freely available again and are attracting far more interest than ever before thanks to Mr Molyneux's very vigorous promotion of the channel (perhaps the Shibes cut him in on a YouTube ads deal?) and since Mr Molyneux, despite his best efforts to appear so, is not actually quite as thick as one would think, he knows that his only current option is to hide under the bed and then proceed to lock down the cult and elevate the remaining members to honorary PKs with free tee-shirt in the mail as soon as he can muster the courage to open a single Internet application on one of those shiny new computers many of us bought for him in a moment of wide-eyed optimism.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: JimJesus on August 23, 2014, 07:05:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sKkz6vOQJk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sKkz6vOQJk)

Free Talk Live had a call from Freedom Feens where he talks about Stefan and his DMCA abuse. Ian says that his radio network LRN, which used to air Stefan Molyneux podcasts on their network, had taken them down before this because of the other things about Molyneux brought to his attention. Good on him.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Kaz on August 23, 2014, 08:19:52 AM
Conflating Tru Shribes' videos with those someone else made who allegedly is harrassing people is a bait and switch type of excuse for their real objective.  As well as hypocritically abusing the DMCA law to silence someone critical of Molyneux work, it is also defammatory against Tru Shribes. 

Additionally, to remove other people's work because of FDR's own self made problems shows an outrageous sense of entitlement.

Edit: grammar



Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 23, 2014, 08:44:08 AM
...I just wanted to add a word of advice for those who are curious enough to want to investigate Mr Molyneux's most revolutionary thoughts for themselves.

The method I recommend is that of the conventional telescope. Some modern telescopes are very powerful and you can see things in very great detail even though they are quite a long way off, and then there are also telescopes in satellites, which are, of course, outside the pocket of most of us here.

But don't be thinking you'll be able to actually read anything: a tiny speck of white [edited to add: or perhaps the crayon drawing on the cover has some predominant colour that might stand out] is all we could hope because currently available resolution is far worse than that of Google Earth, which is after all photographed from quite a near height.

The book (I refer to "Crazy Talk" and no, I am not making this up), if it is to be consulted, will require some form of teletransportation into a parallel time-space continuum of the kind that Mr Molyneux practiced when he wrote the great novel on that cold orb. However, at the current state of the art field no firm provisions seem to exist for the return journey, so beware.

[edited to correct syntax and add an afterthought]
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Kaz on August 23, 2014, 08:50:55 AM
The method I recommend is that of the conventional telescope. Some modern telescopes are very powerful and you can see things in very great detail even though they are quite a long way off, and then there are also telescopes in satellites, which are, of course, outside the pocket of most of us here.


Castles in the air cannot be seen by telescopes.

Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: marly qq on August 26, 2014, 05:28:22 AM
there was a comment made on a youtube video about this subject (not very informative, i wouldnt recommend watching it, but link is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTC4n-C8GqQ&list=UUR6zno8fBa9r4wgYQ_7B9Dw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTC4n-C8GqQ&list=UUR6zno8fBa9r4wgYQ_7B9Dw) ) which reads:

"What about Stefan posting on his Facebook that he *didn't* do this ... then deleting that comment. Thoughts?"

is it possible in any way to check deleted facebook posts? would be interesting to see what that post said (if its true)
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: megi on August 26, 2014, 05:39:18 AM
another voice has a say on the matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp-j1WzmkLw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp-j1WzmkLw)

Schooling Molyneux on how to resolve disputes without the state. :D Golden.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: Prodigal son on August 26, 2014, 12:21:23 PM
Some more fun with the latest FDR scandal.

Poetic justice? The symbol is superb! Compliments to whoever is responsible.
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: mikef on February 01, 2015, 09:52:48 PM
I know I'm dredging this up but I've only just found it and felt like I had something to add.

First of all, reading through this was kind of concerning initially.  I remember posting on the thread being discussed but for the life of me couldn't remember the things I had said.  Did I say something stupid that was going to be pointed out?  This was one of the things going through my mind as I read this thread. 

When I got to the end and saw I hadn't been mentioned I took a deep breath and took a look at the thread on FDR.

I'm pretty happy with my contributions I have to say.  I wasn't on the level of JohnH but I was on the skeptic side and did make some contributions regarding the censorship aspect.  When JohnH mentioned he knew some people that were not wanting to participate further because of all the passive-aggression, I was one of those people.  I was feeling really uncomfortable just posting in the thread and private messaged him saying so.   Ultimately, I ended up in moderation so I guess FDR saw my contributions the same way I do now.  :)

I was thinking about why I got this right even though I was a FDR supporter at the time.   The fundamental reason, I think, is because I just told myself a couple years back I would always go with the truth, even when it felt uncomfortable at the time.  Always be skeptical.   That's why I wasn't one of the people blindly defending FDR here, and that's why I can look back on that thread and feel reasonably happy with my contribution and not feel embarassed about defending the undefendable.  There's a lesson there, for me at least...
Title: Re: FreeDomainRadio Uses Copyright Rules To Get Tru Shibes videos removed?
Post by: féanor on February 04, 2015, 07:03:27 AM
The way to prove your True Believerness is to not engage in arguments on the board, ever. Just toss in a flippant remark and be done with it. If you get into arguments with others, it shows that you are not entirely confident in your beliefs, and you should probably be on a therapist's couch rather than the forums, until you work through your internal strife.

Of course, you have a valid reason for doing/saying everything you do, and if anyone dares to question you on that, they are rude and should probably be shunned out of the community. You are a True Believer who has been blessed by Molyneux, after all. And they're some average Joe with an axe to grind.

This is brilliant!