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Do you think that Molyneux is a victim

Author Topic: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?  (Read 20463 times)

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Kaz

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2015, 06:56:52 PM »
0
Just because you have left FDR, it doesn't mean that FDR has left you.

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Kaz

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2015, 10:52:46 PM »
+1

Molyneux’s mental manipulation is not as obvious as his donation scam, which makes it even more damaging and I agree with you that this by far is the more serious abuse.  I would label it mental rape, given Molyneux’s reported description of what he is doing:  How he sees himself as slithering past peoples’ “false selves” (personal boundaries) where he can proceed to break them down so that he can build them up in his image which he has determined to be their “true self” along with Molyneux’s version of their past history.



! No longer available


From the Youtube channel of Sacha Slone
Just because you have left FDR, it doesn't mean that FDR has left you.

"Taking responsibility for something and self-blame are horses of two entirely different colors. The former is empowering; the latter is paralyzing." ~ John Rosemond, Ph.D

Free Man

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2015, 12:11:01 AM »
+2

Molyneux’s mental manipulation is not as obvious as his donation scam, which makes it even more damaging and I agree with you that this by far is the more serious abuse.  I would label it mental rape, given Molyneux’s reported description of what he is doing:  How he sees himself as slithering past peoples’ “false selves” (personal boundaries) where he can proceed to break them down so that he can build them up in his image which he has determined to be their “true self” along with Molyneux’s version of their past history.



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From the Youtube channel of Sacha Slone

This absolutely sounds like Molyneux. This hit home to me on such a deep level. Thank you for posting it.

That's really ironic that it looks like she is a poster on the FDR boards. That is like the most ironic thing in the world.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 12:23:07 AM by Free Man »

Mike_Lice

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2015, 04:42:59 AM »
0

Molyneux’s mental manipulation is not as obvious as his donation scam, which makes it even more damaging and I agree with you that this by far is the more serious abuse.  I would label it mental rape, given Molyneux’s reported description of what he is doing:  How he sees himself as slithering past peoples’ “false selves” (personal boundaries) where he can proceed to break them down so that he can build them up in his image which he has determined to be their “true self” along with Molyneux’s version of their past history.



! No longer available

From the Youtube channel of Sacha Slone

This absolutely sounds like Molyneux. This hit home to me on such a deep level. Thank you for posting it.

That's really ironic that it looks like she is a poster on the FDR boards. That is like the most ironic thing in the world.


The woman, Sasha Sloan,  has a FDR logo on her avatar (youtube). Ive noticed this with FDR admirers, they start their own youtube channel or become real life-coaches.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 05:43:39 AM by Mike_Lice »

Kaz

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2016, 05:38:09 PM »
0
more views to contemplate:

"You Were NOT Victimized By Your Narcissistic Abuser" by Mark E. Smith, LCSW of Family Tree Counselling:

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Just because you have left FDR, it doesn't mean that FDR has left you.

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Disillusioned

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2016, 08:30:29 PM »
+1
more views to contemplate:

"You Were NOT Victimized By Your Narcissistic Abuser" by Mark E. Smith, LCSW of Family Tree Counselling:

! No longer available


“I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong.”
― Richard Feynman

Kaz

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2016, 09:02:04 PM »
0
more views to contemplate:

"You Were NOT Victimized By Your Narcissistic Abuser" by Mark E. Smith, LCSW of Family Tree Counselling:

! No longer available





Actually, it is not my opinion, it is the opinion of counsellor Mark Smith. 

Either way, there is no need to be a dick about it.
Just because you have left FDR, it doesn't mean that FDR has left you.

"Taking responsibility for something and self-blame are horses of two entirely different colors. The former is empowering; the latter is paralyzing." ~ John Rosemond, Ph.D

Free Man

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2016, 09:59:21 PM »
0
more views to contemplate:

"You Were NOT Victimized By Your Narcissistic Abuser" by Mark E. Smith, LCSW of Family Tree Counselling:

! No longer available





Actually, it is not my opinion, it is the opinion of counsellor Mark Smith. 

Either way, there is no need to be a dick about it.

I'm pretty sure Disillusioned was talking about Mark Smith, and no offense was meant to you. Though if not, they can correct that.

CupOTea

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2016, 12:45:19 AM »
+2
more views to contemplate:

"You Were NOT Victimized By Your Narcissistic Abuser" by Mark E. Smith, LCSW of Family Tree Counselling:

! No longer available

Kaz, I like what he says about taking responsibility for all our choices.  Its painful at times but ultimately its an optimistic way to view life, since we can learn from anything that happens.  I don't know if you intended this to be about cultic relationships too.  A lot of his ideas can also be applied to those who get caught in a destructive group.  But as I understand it, there is one significant difference between being in a relationship with a narcissist and getting caught up in a group headed by a narcissist.  All the experts I've ever heard talk about it say that anyone can get pulled into a cult if they are in a transition in their life and if the right cult comes along at that time.  That's what makes them vulnerable and susceptible to coercive influence.  According to Mark Smith, it seems that falling in love with a narcissist is due to some trauma in early family life.  I guess the difference is a cult can happen to anyone and most people won't have a personal love relationship with a narcissist.
Real men, proper big hairy real men who fight wild animals, naked, in the wilderness, with just a hammer and a copy of UPB, would shout, in their big hairy K-selected manly voices "look at me, I'm K-selected and I'm kicking this bear's ass, and I haven't got any pants on!"   : o )

Disillusioned

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2016, 10:23:19 AM »
+3
I was directing the meme at the opinion expressed in the video, not at Kaz in particular. I am curious about their motivations for posting that video on this forum.

I agree it's good to take responsibility for your choices. I don't agree with much else that was expressed in the video. This guy suggests I look into my "family of origin" issues to figure out why I was drawn to a narcissist, so apparently parents are to blame. (?) His repeated claims that his video would forever change my life also had me feeling a bit creeped out.

So, he doesn't like the term victim, and doesn't think people who are abused by narcissists should call themselves victims. Well, you don't get to change the definition of victim.

Victim - a person harmed, injured or killed as a result of a crime, accident or other event or action. - a person who is tricked or duped.

Sorry, but that describes cult members.

In the video, he says that he doesn't like people to identify as victims of narcissists, because "we all choose who we need to choose" based on our childhood traumas. He says we shouldn't think of ourselves as victims, because we were not perfect little angels before we met the narcissist. How does that even follow? He implies that the options are either taking zero responsibility or accepting that you're not a victim and actually sought out your abuser. This is stupidly simplistic.

The story he told about the cow and bird is also problematic when you think of it in terms of being a victim of a cult or narcissistic abuser. He implies that the shit we deal with is actually something that helps us in the end (by thawing out our metaphorical wings or something). I see stupid memes about this sort of thing on Facebook all the time. If the shit you went through ended up helping you be a better person, be grateful for that. It's awesome and you're very lucky. I find the whole sentiment to be naive and insulting to all of the domestic abuse and cult victims who never make it out of those relationships, and to the ones who've literally died trying to escape.

Maybe they're coming from a place of concern that people like me don't dwell in our victimhood or something. I don't know. I don't think denying that we were victims is actually helping. I can't speak for anyone else, but I find it insulting and insensitive.

I found it very helpful in my own road to recovery to spend a lot of time thinking about how and why I was taken in by Molyneux and Freedomain Radio. I highly recommend introspection and research after coming out of any kind of a traumatic event or relationship. I learned a lot about myself, my insecurities and vulnerabilities, as well as a lot about creeps and predators from this experience. It's been entirely possible for me to grow, learn, take responsibility and identify as a victim of a cult all at the same time.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 10:37:22 AM by Disillusioned »
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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2016, 10:35:59 AM »
+2
The guy sounds a lot like Molyneux - blaming an ordinarily bad relationship (the girlfriend cheated on him, and allegedly used her sexuality to take advantage of him financially) on his "family of origin" and his mother, his abandonment issues with his mother because she supposedly treated his brother better than him.  Geez, you might as well have been listening to an old FDR podcast.  ::)

CupOTea

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2016, 11:28:56 AM »
+1
I'm not convinced this guy is so bad.  For one thing he isn't talking about the dynamics of destructive cults. We may be talking about apples and oranges here.  It may be the families of origin is the usual source for people who choose to marry a narcissist.  I am no expert but most of the people I know who have fallen into that trap, had very bad family experiences and relationships.  Not all but most.  Whereas destructive cults seem to be a different ball of wax.  It seems to be we can all get caught in a cult if the right one comes along at the right time. 

I think what he's trying to do is to get people to take responsibility for the vulnerability that made them get into that destructive relationship.  That's a powerful position to take.  Someone recognizing that they are a victim is powerful if they didn't know they were and until that really settles in, its good to focus on that.  After that figuring out what made them vulnerable to get caught up in that destructive web puts them in a stronger position. 

The people that have come out of a destructive cult and take the journey to figure out what happened to them and why, are the ones that are less likely to get caught again.  Free Man for instance can recognize mental manipulation from a mile away (I'm paraphrasing).  He is now both wiser than the average bear and far less likely to get fooled again.
Real men, proper big hairy real men who fight wild animals, naked, in the wilderness, with just a hammer and a copy of UPB, would shout, in their big hairy K-selected manly voices "look at me, I'm K-selected and I'm kicking this bear's ass, and I haven't got any pants on!"   : o )

Disillusioned

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2016, 11:45:19 AM »
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I'm not convinced this guy is so bad.  For one thing he isn't talking about the dynamics of destructive cults. We may be talking about apples and oranges here.  It may be the families of origin is the usual source for people who choose to marry a narcissist.  I am no expert but most of the people I know who have fallen into that trap, had very bad family experiences and relationships.  Not all but most.  Whereas destructive cults seem to be a different ball of wax.  It seems to be we can all get caught in a cult if the right one comes along at the right time.

I don't think he's a bad guy at all. I don't think he would equate my experience with Freedomain Radio with his experience with his ex. I brought up the cult comparison because it was posted on this forum (inappropriately, in my opinion). Molyneux is often called a narcissist here, so it's fair to assume that Kaz was implying that people claiming to be victims of Molyneux should reconsider.

I think what he's trying to do is to get people to take responsibility for the vulnerability that made them get into that destructive relationship.  That's a powerful position to take.  Someone recognizing that they are a victim is powerful if they didn't know they were and until that really settles in, its good to focus on that.  After that figuring out what made them vulnerable to get caught up in that destructive web puts them in a stronger position. 

His position is that identifying as a victim is the wrong and unhelpful thing to do. I'm confused by your response.
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CupOTea

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2016, 12:24:07 PM »
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I'm not convinced this guy is so bad.  For one thing he isn't talking about the dynamics of destructive cults. We may be talking about apples and oranges here.  It may be the families of origin is the usual source for people who choose to marry a narcissist.  I am no expert but most of the people I know who have fallen into that trap, had very bad family experiences and relationships.  Not all but most.  Whereas destructive cults seem to be a different ball of wax.  It seems to be we can all get caught in a cult if the right one comes along at the right time.

I don't think he's a bad guy at all. I don't think he would equate my experience with Freedomain Radio with his experience with his ex. I brought up the cult comparison because it was posted on this forum (inappropriately, in my opinion). Molyneux is often called a narcissist here, so it's fair to assume that Kaz was implying that people claiming to be victims of Molyneux should reconsider.

I think what he's trying to do is to get people to take responsibility for the vulnerability that made them get into that destructive relationship.  That's a powerful position to take.  Someone recognizing that they are a victim is powerful if they didn't know they were and until that really settles in, its good to focus on that.  After that figuring out what made them vulnerable to get caught up in that destructive web puts them in a stronger position. 

His position is that identifying as a victim is the wrong and unhelpful thing to do. I'm confused by your response.

It seems to me that he was trying to just get people to look at where they can take control.  He acknowledged that people were traumatized.  I think as a therapist he is just trying to get people to find where they have power.  So that would be focusing on the areas that they can have some control rather than focusing on being a victim.  Its the same problem but looking at it from a different angle.

I can't speak for Kaz as to why she posted this.  Its about relationships and not destructive groups which have different dynamics.  I assume she intended that we look for similarities since they both involve narcissists.   If that's not what she had in mind I'm sure she can clarify that.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 12:51:04 PM by CupOTea »
Real men, proper big hairy real men who fight wild animals, naked, in the wilderness, with just a hammer and a copy of UPB, would shout, in their big hairy K-selected manly voices "look at me, I'm K-selected and I'm kicking this bear's ass, and I haven't got any pants on!"   : o )

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Re: Is Stefan Molyneux a victim himself?
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2016, 02:19:11 PM »
+1
Maybe those that want to discourage psychologizing on this board should also discourage the posting of videos that psychologize.  Most feel like a redux of early Molyneux - personal gripes looking for someone's bias to confirm to develop a Web fanbase.  One is even podcasting from his car in the same fashion.  Is the goal to convince people to swap from their old quack to another?