Author Topic: Has Stefan gone Racist?  (Read 40316 times)

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swatleader617

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Has Stefan gone Racist?
« on: October 11, 2015, 03:21:55 AM »
+2
I used to follow him since 2013  up till a few months ago. After seeing his current videos and guests talking about  immagration,IQ and race. Looks like he is going full White Nationalist cult movement now. Im just surprised he can go this low   :'(
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 03:39:20 AM by swatleader617 »

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2015, 03:13:01 PM »
+9
Racist, misogynist, xenophobic or even gene supremacist (!) call him what you will but I think you'd be missing the larger picture, that he likely suffers NPD, so all these various targets of his embittered tantrums are likely just individual facets of his misanthropy, I doubt he hates black culture or Syrian children any more than he loathes women or teachers or academics or 'r's or parents (etc etc).

Simply calling him racist is a little like focusing in on an anorexic's dislike of carrots and wondering whether they have something against vegetables . . . take a step back and you'll see they are repulsed by all types of foods, not just vegetables, in that respect Molyneux might not, strictly, be a racist, I'd say it's more the case that his racism is part of something larger.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 04:59:26 PM by : o ) »
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poopmeat

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2015, 03:35:33 AM »
+4
There is a concept I researched awhile ago called primacy. It's where someone getting the information out there first has more of a impact than if they got it out there second.

Stefan Molyneux uses primacy in cooperation with being assertive, stats, and academic studies to justify his thought process at which makes it more easier for his listeners to agree with him. As you can see within the youtube comments if one were to say Moly is wrong on this or that with a FDR video you make experience strong cognitive dissonance with FDR members. These people have been inoculated/primed by Moly to see R versus K, single mothers etc... It doesn't matter if your wrong or right it's that fact you have criticism towards Moly as to why they are upset.

Just because he uses academic studies/stats to back up his thoughts does not mean he's right it just means he's very loud. One of the many Morphy's laws sums up Moly perfectly which is, "Those who know the least will always know it the loudest.".

My two cents is it is possible these people know Stefan is wrong however because they have agreed with Moly on other things they are to emotionally invested in Moly. To disagree with Moly on 1 thing means possibly the one subject Moly talks about that they are emotionally invested in could be wrong as well and they would rather overlook Moly being wrong on one thing rather than admit that Moly's thinking is flawed terribly and in fact Moly is still a victim himself. I do not think Moly has overcame anything within his childhood, to me he's still deeply disturbed. FDR to me is Moly's cry for help and in the process the victim becomes the victimiser.

There may be grains of truth in what he says but he's so disturbed that he intertwines other things within these truths.

References
Primacy effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Serial_position_effect&redirect=no#Primacy_effect

Inoculation theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inoculation_theory#Relevant_research

Priming (psychology)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology)#In_daily_life

Cognitive dissonance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 04:35:53 AM by poopmeat »

RecentlyBanned

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2015, 02:48:31 PM »
0
Hello everyone.  I'm a former gold-donator, who has been really annoyed with Stefan for about six months. 

I don't think Stefan is being racist.  I think he's discovering that libertarianism doesn't work in the current political environment, but isn't ready to denounce libertarianism entirely. 

I don't know whether any of you are familiar with Vox Day, particularly his book SJWs Always Lie, but he asserts that the four pillars of Liberalism are Equality, Tolerance, Diversity, Multiculturalism, and Progressivism.  He also asserts that these values are directly contradictory to each other, which means Liberalism is always destroyed by reality. 

Because I don't think the races are equal - whether politically, intellectually, or even aesthetically ("Would I want to live in that culture?") - I don't see any racism in Stefan's perspective.  He's simply saying that Muslims are an inferior culture, relative to the non-Muslim cultures they're emigrating into.  And I happen to agree with him. 

Thoughts? 

Jim Jones

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2015, 06:42:37 PM »
+4
Hello everyone.  I'm a former gold-donator, who has been really annoyed with Stefan for about six months. 

I don't think Stefan is being racist.  I think he's discovering that libertarianism doesn't work in the current political environment, but isn't ready to denounce libertarianism entirely. 

I don't know whether any of you are familiar with Vox Day, particularly his book SJWs Always Lie, but he asserts that the four pillars of Liberalism are Equality, Tolerance, Diversity, Multiculturalism, and Progressivism.  He also asserts that these values are directly contradictory to each other, which means Liberalism is always destroyed by reality. 

Because I don't think the races are equal - whether politically, intellectually, or even aesthetically ("Would I want to live in that culture?") - I don't see any racism in Stefan's perspective.  He's simply saying that Muslims are an inferior culture, relative to the non-Muslim cultures they're emigrating into.  And I happen to agree with him. 

Thoughts?

It's much more than just talking about Muslim culture. Have you not heard of his theory of the "Freedom Club"?

And, just by the by, it's also funny how he disingenuously uses Europe and the US as failed liberal statist catastrophes when it serves his purposes, and then turns around and calls them successful, free democracies when it fits his "freedom club" narrative.

Almost every other video, he straw mans progressives and moderates as people who "blame whitey" whenever things go wrong. Not only is this absurd, there is literally no evidence for this, and he offers none. He is the type that takes one incident and uses it to make sweeping generalizations of large groups of people. He's also inconsistent when it comes to race. If someone is defending himself from the violence of the state, if he is white and he uses guns, he is in the right. If he is black and he is outnumbered and he simply resists violence with his bare hands, he deserved it and shouldn't have fought back.

Having a certain standard for one race and having a different standard for another race -- that's racism. I won't even begin to list all of the underhanded and deceitful tactics he uses when he talks about groups he doesn't like (whether it be women, blacks, whatever). Just to give one short example of this, whenever he talks about a group that he's trying to criticize, instead of just earnestly criticizing them, he has to straw man the opposing viewpoint, ex:

'I criticize blacks because unlike the RACIST liberals, I refuse to treat them differently from other groups.'

He makes these statements with built-in implications fully knowing that phrasing it this way, he doesn't have to worry about actually backing up his assumptions whatsoever.

He's like the guy that says "I'm not racist, I have black friends!". It's like the time he defended that cop who shot a man running away in the back and then planted his tazer on him. He said something to the effect of "this obviously can't have been racially motivated because look, one of the other cops on the scene is black!"

If there weren't so many different instances of clear prejudice, I could maybe perhaps believe that he is just very ignorant but well-meaning. But I've listened too many podcasts, read too many forum posts and watched too many YT videos to come to any other conclusion than he's a racist.

I think people shy away from the term racist because of its strong implications, but they don't realize what the word actually means. Here is a definition off Google:

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 06:44:08 PM by Jim Jones »
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Kaz

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2015, 12:05:17 AM »
0
Hello everyone.  I'm a former gold-donator, who has been really annoyed with Stefan for about six months. 

I don't think Stefan is being racist.  I think he's discovering that libertarianism doesn't work in the current political environment, but isn't ready to denounce libertarianism entirely. 

I don't know whether any of you are familiar with Vox Day, particularly his book SJWs Always Lie, but he asserts that the four pillars of Liberalism are Equality, Tolerance, Diversity, Multiculturalism, and Progressivism.  He also asserts that these values are directly contradictory to each other, which means Liberalism is always destroyed by reality. 

Because I don't think the races are equal - whether politically, intellectually, or even aesthetically ("Would I want to live in that culture?") - I don't see any racism in Stefan's perspective.  He's simply saying that Muslims are an inferior culture, relative to the non-Muslim cultures they're emigrating into.  And I happen to agree with him. 

Thoughts?

Hello RecentlyBanned,

I haven't directly listened to much of what Molyneux says for many years now, so I cannot comment on what he is saying.

I think that most of the problems are about culture and not race.  Cultures that demand obedience to a rigid clan system are not compatible with (what used to be) the freedom/responsibility of people in Western based cultures to act in accordance with their own consciences. 

I also think that the problems we are seeing all over the world with the movement of people are in large part caused by welfare.  I don't blame people for seeking a better life for themselves, but    nations which are spending their citizens money on generous positive rights for non-citizens and then having to spend more of their citizens money trying to keep these people out are responsible for much of their own trouble as well as not showing much respect for their own citizens and in the process undermining their own culture.

edit: clarity
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 12:39:28 AM by Kaz »
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Kaz

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2015, 12:23:29 AM »
+1

My two cents is it is possible these people know Stefan is wrong however because they have agreed with Moly on other things they are to emotionally invested in Moly. To disagree with Moly on 1 thing means possibly the one subject Moly talks about that they are emotionally invested in could be wrong as well and they would rather overlook Moly being wrong on one thing rather than admit that Moly's thinking is flawed terribly and in fact Moly is still a victim himself. I do not think Moly has overcame anything within his childhood, to me he's still deeply disturbed. FDR to me is Moly's cry for help and in the process the victim becomes the victimiser.


It is this type of emotional reactivity dressed up as rational discussion and the endless victim-rescuer-persecutor-victim drama that goes with it that I have been unsuccessfully attempting to discuss on this forum.  It is by no means unique to FDR, but Molyneux, like others have made it profitable, which is unfortunate as it rewards what is ultimately destructive.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 12:27:05 AM by Kaz »
Just because you have left FDR, it doesn't mean that FDR has left you.

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Argent

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2015, 01:56:58 AM »
0
Because I don't think the races are equal - whether politically, intellectually, or even aesthetically ("Would I want to live in that culture?") - I don't see any racism in Stefan's perspective.  He's simply saying that Muslims are an inferior culture, relative to the non-Muslim cultures they're emigrating into.  And I happen to agree with him. 

Thoughts?

As flawed as UPB was, it at least gave Stefan a framework for dealing with this kind of thing. He could condemn the coercive aspects of cultures or countries by saying that they weren't UPB (which roughly translates back to "immoral".) At the same time, he could keep superficial cultural differences (choice of food, clothing, music, etc) out of it by calling them APA, just like his perennial example of chocolate vs. vanilla ice cream.

So while someone might like culture A more than culture B due to personal tastes, such things had no place as subject matter for FDR's podcast, which tried to treat only universal ("philosophical") matters. There wouldn't even be a place for condemning an entire culture based on the actions of some of its members, because Stefan didn't accept the legitimacy of groups such as governments or cultures--only individuals existed in his eyes. Disliking or condemning someone on the basis of their culture rather than their individual actions is basically the definition of racism, so FDR had built-in protection against veering into racism. (Doesn't mean he didn't sometimes break his own rules.)

I'd be interested to know if he ever refers to his UPB framework anymore, or if he ditched it. If he still uses it, how does he manage to fit race talk into it?

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2015, 07:01:24 AM »
+4
He's simply saying that Muslims are an inferior culture, relative to the non-Muslim cultures they're emigrating into.

That is - by definition - racism.
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slack babbath

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 02:02:49 PM »
+3


Because I don't think the races are equal - whether politically, intellectually, or even aesthetically ("Would I want to live in that culture?") - I don't see any racism in Stefan's perspective.  He's simply saying that Muslims are an inferior culture, relative to the non-Muslim cultures they're emigrating into.  And I happen to agree with him. 

Thoughts?

Firstly, 'Muslimhood' is not a uniform culture by any means. It is primarily a religion that's as multifaceted as Christianity. As such, Muslims can be both secular and fundamentalists, and their practices might vary from Nomadism to more institutionalized and urbanized forms of belief.

Secondly, 'race' is not a well-defined term, and, therefore, no particularly interesting scientific conclusions follow.

While I'm unsure as to whether Molyneux suffers from NPD, I don't think it would be pretty far-fetched to say that he's becoming increasingly more prejudiced and hateful.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 02:18:10 PM by slack babbath »

Jim Jones

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2015, 01:55:26 AM »
0


Because I don't think the races are equal - whether politically, intellectually, or even aesthetically ("Would I want to live in that culture?") - I don't see any racism in Stefan's perspective.  He's simply saying that Muslims are an inferior culture, relative to the non-Muslim cultures they're emigrating into.  And I happen to agree with him. 

Thoughts?

Firstly, 'Muslimhood' is not a uniform culture by any means. It is primarily a religion that's as multifaceted as Christianity. As such, Muslims can be both secular and fundamentalists, and their practices might vary from Nomadism to more institutionalized and urbanized forms of belief.

Secondly, 'race' is not a well-defined term, and, therefore, no particularly interesting scientific conclusions follow.

While I'm unsure as to whether Molyneux suffers from NPD, I don't think it would be pretty far-fetched to say that he's becoming increasingly more prejudiced and hateful.

I agree 100%. I know I've brought this example up multiple times on this forum, and I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but Stefan is inconsistent on race as evidenced by his Bundy Ranch video versus his videos about Eric Garner and Walter Scott.

You can be damn sure if the Bundy Ranch guys were a group of black people not on a ranch carrying weapons and defending their property that Stefan would be have made a video justifying governmental force, full of his half-assed "since we don't live in an anarchic society" rationalizations that the initiation of force is justified.

This is the same guy who defended a cop who shot a man clearly running away from him ON VIDEO. He even got pathetically desperate at one point by showing an extremely blurry still of what he describes as the suspect on top of the officer during the altercation before the shooting.

Mr. "Non Initiation of Force unless you're a cop and you're shooting a black guy in the back" Molyneux.

Normally I'd leave the "black guy" out of that description except for the fact that I 100% believe he wouldn't be justifying the officer's behavior had the man been white.

"A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true." -Socrates

Rafaman

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2015, 06:21:04 PM »
+3
Is Stef racist?

Who cares? Because Stefan M certainly doesn't. He was just as passionate and willing to be shot for being an ancap, or deftly fighting against religion. NOW he openly supports statism and  Donald Trump and is always using implicit religious tones to convey shallow empathy  -"My God that's terrible", " I need to keep my soul clean" and "Say no to evil". 

Does the content really matter at this point?  The subtext of every podcast carries the same theme:
• I’m important give me attention
• I’m correct, better than everyone else and I’m also very happy. If you want to be like me, you need to listen and agree with my ideas
• I enjoy being validated and told I’m special, you should placate me
• I really like working from home you should give me money so I can

It's the same vaudeville act every time. He might believe in some things he says but really the major point is self promotion and a never ending battle to stay relevant.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 10:04:40 PM by Rafaman »

Argent

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2015, 01:42:58 AM »
+2
Why care? In the past, I saw a lot of people saying things like "his psychology angle and cultishness are a bit weird, but I give him a pass (and even share his videos) because he is good at explaining the basic arguments behind things I care about like anarcho-capitalism and atheism. Plus he's funny."

If he's now openly promoting inexcusable things like racism, those people I mentioned above may want to reconsider their support for him. Intolerance is like a virus that spreads. It's also difficult to argue against rationally because it is such a backwards way of thinking.

We saw in the past how effective he was at promoting intolerance of one's own family. That was bad enough, but was fairly localized and there was always the argument that it was somewhat deserved due to family history.

Intolerance based on skin color, gender, socioeconomic status, etc. is in another league and personally, I'd prefer his videos weren't out there waiting to infect vulnerable and impressionable young people. Everyone who knows about it but doesn't speak out against it is effectively legitimizing it. These young people should be able to google him and see that he is a laughing stock not to be taken seriously.

Rafaman

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2015, 06:44:31 PM »
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Why care? In the past, I saw a lot of people saying things like "his psychology angle and cultishness are a bit weird, but I give him a pass (and even share his videos) because he is good at explaining the basic arguments behind things I care about like anarcho-capitalism and atheism. Plus he's funny."

If he's now openly promoting inexcusable things like racism, those people I mentioned above may want to reconsider their support for him. Intolerance is like a virus that spreads. It's also difficult to argue against rationally because it is such a backwards way of thinking.

We saw in the past how effective he was at promoting intolerance of one's own family. That was bad enough, but was fairly localized and there was always the argument that it was somewhat deserved due to family history.

Intolerance based on skin color, gender, socioeconomic status, etc. is in another league and personally, I'd prefer his videos weren't out there waiting to infect vulnerable and impressionable young people. Everyone who knows about it but doesn't speak out against it is effectively legitimizing it. These young people should be able to google him and see that he is a laughing stock not to be taken seriously.

Sadly, Youtube is FULL of these “personalities” whose negative, counter-culture world views are portrayed as worthwhile life choices. I can provide links to so many harmful, idiotic, selfish and generally nonsensical YT channels which spout utter crap and you wouldn’t believe they have well over 350,000 subscribers (that’s more than Stefan M’s). A huge amount of this content is innocently dressed up as everyday topics but have underlying societal assumptions that are not healthy. And they always have some charismatic guru/expert/leader/instructor who now Youtubes for a living, who is operating on the fringes of an industry and outside of their “YT fame” is mostly unknown to people in that mainstream field. For example how many professional economists, exchange rate traders or laboratory technicians know who Stefan is or even follow his ideas in their practice?

Examples of the YT content I am referring to are:
- how to pick up women:  Interactions with women should be treated like a video game where you can develop your verbal skills and level up until you have enough experiences to approach the 10/10 stunners. Sleeping with hundreds of women should be every man’s goal and those that don’t undertake such a journey do so because they can’t handle the “real world” and are “beta males”. These videos are loaded with lots of evolutionary psychology terms, gender stereotypes and are apparently backed by “science”. These so called gurus don't have counselling backgrounds and nor studied psychology. Dating workshops and hiring coaches to accompany you at social events are products suggested to viewers.

- get a beach body: Spending 5 days a week training at the gym for years on end and closely monitoring your food intake to achieve below 10% body fat (i.e. getting “shredded”) is a sensible hobby. Even you aren’t paid as part of the fitness industry, you should do this in all your spare time and live the “aesthetic  lifestyle”. If you don’t have such a body then you have “no right” to criticise those that do. This isn’t about vanity – it’s about maximising your physical potential (slogan like “whatever it takes”) and only the mentally strong can do this and then this positive energy allows them to achieve other life goals and success. The instructors selling this message people aren't certified personal trainers, have no medical industry backgrounds and are not even professional athletes. Diet plans, t shirts and training programs are suggested to viewers.

The monetising of YT by self-appointed gurus is common place now and young people need to first identify the motives behind the message.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 10:05:38 PM by Rafaman »

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Re: Has Stefan gone Racist?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2015, 05:38:34 AM »
0
Intolerance based on skin color, gender, socioeconomic status, etc. is in another league and personally, I'd prefer his videos weren't out there waiting to infect vulnerable and impressionable young people. Everyone who knows about it but doesn't speak out against it is effectively legitimizing it. These young people should be able to google him and see that he is a laughing stock not to be taken seriously.

Agreed, if you review Molyneux's more recent output it reads like a Anders Breivik manifesto !

At the time when Molyneux's demonising of women was at its most fervent people made the point that his hysterical, conspiratorial and malevolent view of women echoed that of Elliot Rodger.

You could make the same point now with Anders Breivik, perhaps more so. Of course Molyneux is hardly about to go on a shooting spree, for all his theatrical bravado he is, after all, just a bald, slightly overweight middle-aged man with a free Youtube account, but like you say these ideas, this relentless apocalyptic eschatology, this endless 'these are the last days of history' and 'your future is slavery' sentiments - are out there waiting to infect vulnerable and impressionable young people.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
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