Author Topic: Ramifications  (Read 994 times)

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summa logicae

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Ramifications
« on: November 11, 2017, 12:57:06 PM »
+4
Though it's entertaining to a degree to listen to listen to Molyneux's stream of bad thinking and bad arguments, commiting  fallacy after fallacy, he does cause major damage (other than causing families to break apart), and that's by poisoning the well of serious thinkers in the public sphere. I take this view as one with a keen interest in philosophy myself, and though I hold no rancor against academia, it is certainly not the exclusive domain of serious, valid argument, discussion, and thought. Molyneux and his ilk make a mockery of this notion and I very much appreciate that a site like this one exists.

Kronze21

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2018, 03:28:00 AM »
0
Those families needed to be broken up they where toxic.

Though it's entertaining to a degree to listen to listen to Molyneux's stream of bad thinking and bad arguments, commiting  fallacy after fallacy, he does cause major damage (other than causing families to break apart), and that's by poisoning the well of serious thinkers in the public sphere. I take this view as one with a keen interest in philosophy myself, and though I hold no rancor against academia, it is certainly not the exclusive domain of serious, valid argument, discussion, and thought. Molyneux and his ilk make a mockery of this notion and I very much appreciate that a site like this one exists.

Lupus

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2018, 10:59:13 PM »
0
Those families needed to be broken up they where toxic.

In the past Molyneux has said being Christian or voting was reason enough for a family to be broken up . . . do you think Molyneux was wrong to promote this idea for so long ?

Kronze21

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2018, 12:12:21 AM »
0
Yes Stef was Cleary too extreme in his earlier days but he's mellowed to a good level.

Those families needed to be broken up they where toxic.

In the past Molyneux has said being Christian or voting was reason enough for a family to be broken up . . . do you think Molyneux was wrong to promote this idea for so long ?

Lupus

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2018, 01:27:47 AM »
+3
Yes Stef was Cleary too extreme in his earlier days but he's mellowed to a good level.

I can't see how he mellowed at all ? He just swaps one target of his hatred for another, Christians are evil, voters are evil, women are evil, liberals are evil, atheists are evil, people voting for anyone but my choice in candidate in a foreign election are evil, the 'r' selected people are venal parasites, it's a gene war, r vs K, it's sex war, men vs women, it's the makers vs the takers . . . . and on and on.

He's not mellowed at all from what I can tell, he just reorients his militant cynicism towards a new target as his audience changes.

Brainpolice2

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2018, 10:27:13 PM »
+5
As I had observed before, one of the consistent things about Molyneux across all his positions is the tendency to simplistically split humanity up into the worthy and unworthy in one way or another, laced with a heavily pretentious notion of personal virtue and being part of the moral elite, while going out of his way to knock down everything else in the world of thought but his position through specious arguments filled with dubious assumptions and fallacies. More or less, his main method is to engage in mock Socratic dialogue with a strawman position.

As far as I can tell he's merely expanded his targets to minorities, young women, and basically everyone not politically on the right. Whereas before the focus was more on shunning religious people, your family, your friends, and anyone who doesn't buy "the gun in the room" argument. He always had an irrational hostility to pretty much the entirety of continental philosophy, and emanates a heavy strain of moralist absolutism that condemns most other people, while making gigantic logical leaps about the personal psychology of the people he engages with.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 10:30:47 PM by Brainpolice2 »

Kronze21

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2018, 08:30:59 PM »
0
No hate just love.  Love for a free society.  He is certainly against those who do not however and those who are a problem.  Aren't you against those who want the opposite of what you want??


Yes Stef was Cleary too extreme in his earlier days but he's mellowed to a good level.

I can't see how he mellowed at all ? He just swaps one target of his hatred for another, Christians are evil, voters are evil, women are evil, liberals are evil, atheists are evil, people voting for anyone but my choice in candidate in a foreign election are evil, the 'r' selected people are venal parasites, it's a gene war, r vs K, it's sex war, men vs women, it's the makers vs the takers . . . . and on and on.

He's not mellowed at all from what I can tell, he just reorients his militant cynicism towards a new target as his audience changes.

Kronze21

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2018, 08:36:03 PM »
0
You don't see some part of humanity as a problem and others as not??  You think serial killers are "worthy"?  I certainly don't.

Why can't Stef criticize  things and people without you jumping to him just being irrational or whatever else??  You think minorties and women should be above criticism??  How is that equality??

As I had observed before, one of the consistent things about Molyneux across all his positions is the tendency to simplistically split humanity up into the worthy and unworthy in one way or another, laced with a heavily pretentious notion of personal virtue and being part of the moral elite, while going out of his way to knock down everything else in the world of thought but his position through specious arguments filled with dubious assumptions and fallacies. More or less, his main method is to engage in mock Socratic dialogue with a strawman position.

As far as I can tell he's merely expanded his targets to minorities, young women, and basically everyone not politically on the right. Whereas before the focus was more on shunning religious people, your family, your friends, and anyone who doesn't buy "the gun in the room" argument. He always had an irrational hostility to pretty much the entirety of continental philosophy, and emanates a heavy strain of moralist absolutism that condemns most other people, while making gigantic logical leaps about the personal psychology of the people he engages with.

Lupus

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2018, 09:08:48 PM »
0
No hate just love.  Love for a free society.

Lol, any society that formed around the lazy reductionlist thinking of Molyneux would be anything but free. You would be governed by strictures you probably can't even imagine right now, people locked into their houses by DRO corporations, people starved to death for not complying with sentences issued by companies with a vested interest, women would be 'held to account' for the actions of their husbands 30 years after they married them, there would be a corpoarate police force to instil fear into the population (FDR3139 "in a free society there will be cops people fear"), brain scans would apparently be mandatory, without a clear brain scan (showing no deviancy, no criminally and so on) you would be denied all services, you could not get work, rent accommodation or even buy food, you cannot even begin to imagine the total surveillance state Molyneux's notion of mandatory brain scans would usher in, people literally looking into your head - you want to smoke a joint or have a few beers too many once in a while with your friends, get ready to lose your medical insurance - and you have no choice in the matter . . . and if a child 'fails' the brain scan, if the scan shows signs that the child has been abused, sexually or otherwise . . . Molyneux says that child would be barred from attending any school - his reasoning being that abused children tend towards disruption and he doesn't want his own children's education disrupted - so in Molyneux's 'free' society a child who is raped, beaten or psychologically abused by a parent is put through a mandatory brain scan and then punished for the abuse by being denied an education and a future.

And it doesn't stop there, the parents would lose all access to employment, accommodation, food, water, electricity (and so on), so the child is tortured, f*cked in the arse, beaten, Molyneux's system then punishes the child by removing the only non-family contact the child is likely to have, and the child is sent back to the now jobless, homeless family.

Brilliant stuff Stef ! Lol.  ;D
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 09:12:28 PM by Lupus »

Kronze21

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2018, 09:48:39 PM »
0
Wow so many straw mans and utter nonsense it actually became boring.  At least it was orginal though but unfortunately your originality isn't always interesting, exciting or accurate.  You should have quit when you actually made me laugh before.  Now its all down hill for you apparently, shame.  SMH


No hate just love.  Love for a free society.

Lol, any society that formed around the lazy reductionlist thinking of Molyneux would be anything but free. You would be governed by strictures you probably can't even imagine right now, people locked into their houses by DRO corporations, people starved to death for not complying with sentences issued by companies with a vested interest, women would be 'held to account' for the actions of their husbands 30 years after they married them, there would be a corpoarate police force to instil fear into the population (FDR3139 "in a free society there will be cops people fear"), brain scans would apparently be mandatory, without a clear brain scan (showing no deviancy, no criminally and so on) you would be denied all services, you could not get work, rent accommodation or even buy food, you cannot even begin to imagine the total surveillance state Molyneux's notion of mandatory brain scans would usher in, people literally looking into your head - you want to smoke a joint or have a few beers too many once in a while with your friends, get ready to lose your medical insurance - and you have no choice in the matter . . . and if a child 'fails' the brain scan, if the scan shows signs that the child has been abused, sexually or otherwise . . . Molyneux says that child would be barred from attending any school - his reasoning being that abused children tend towards disruption and he doesn't want his own children's education disrupted - so in Molyneux's 'free' society a child who is raped, beaten or psychologically abused by a parent is put through a mandatory brain scan and then punished for the abuse by being denied an education and a future.

And it doesn't stop there, the parents would lose all access to employment, accommodation, food, water, electricity (and so on), so the child is tortured, f*cked in the arse, beaten, Molyneux's system then punishes the child by removing the only non-family contact the child is likely to have, and the child is sent back to the now jobless, homeless family.

Brilliant stuff Stef ! Lol.  ;D

Lupus

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2018, 10:06:33 PM »
+1
Wow so many straw mans and utter nonsense it actually became boring.  At least it was orginal though but unfortunately your originality isn't always interesting, exciting or accurate.  You should have quit when you actually made me laugh before.  Now its all down hill for you apparently, shame.  SMH

Literally . . . not an argument . . . just an emotional response.

If you think anything I've said is mistaken then point it out, otherwise I'll assume that you recognise the glaring flaws in Molyneux's 'free' society notion, but are unable challenge any of them, so instead are forced to attack the character of anyone who questions Molyneux's thinking.

Go for it, point out where the nonsense and the straw man arguments are ?

Kronze21

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2018, 01:26:51 AM »
0
Maybe but a very accurate one.

What is there to make an argument about??  You've just made a bunch of random claims without any evidence to back them up.  Literally your respose wasn't an argument either.   you don't give arguments towards comments that weren't arguments to begin with.  Come on step up your game man.

I can play this game too.  You're an alien from planet stupid who us here to take over the world.  Because of that we should lock you up and do experiments on you.  I said it so it much be true.  Evidence isn't required in your world.


Wow so many straw mans and utter nonsense it actually became boring.  At least it was orginal though but unfortunately your originality isn't always interesting, exciting or accurate.  You should have quit when you actually made me laugh before.  Now its all down hill for you apparently, shame.  SMH

Literally . . . not an argument . . . just an emotional response.

If you think anything I've said is mistaken then point it out, otherwise I'll assume that you recognise the glaring flaws in Molyneux's 'free' society notion, but are unable challenge any of them, so instead are forced to attack the character of anyone who questions Molyneux's thinking.

Go for it, point out where the nonsense and the straw man arguments are ?

Lupus

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2018, 06:17:05 AM »
+1
I can play this game too.  You're an alien from planet stupid who us here to take over the world.  Because of that we should lock you up and do experiments on you. . . . . . . .

Yep, unable to refute anything I've said, like someone desperate not to hear the more unsavoury aspects of their religion or ideology, you end up attacking the character of the person challenging your ideas rather than rebutting the criticism.

Ok, as your response is a typical Molyneux white-knight 'fingers in the ears', I'll outline what have I said . . . .

"people locked into their houses by DRO corporations"

Yep, in Molyneux's 'free' society, DROs would place you under house arrest for failure to comply with their orders.

"people starved to death for not complying with sentences issued by companies with a vested interest"

Yep, in Molyneux's 'free' society, failure to comply with DROs would mean access to all services, from electricity to water, education to healthcare . . . including access to food . . . would be withdrawn, and guess what happens when you are under house arrest with no access to food ?

"women would be 'held to account' for the actions of their husbands 30 years after they married them"

Yep, I'm surprised I need to point this one out, it's standard Molyneux fare . . . Molyneux has made it clear that when a father leaves a family destitute, turns out (even decades after a happy marriage) to be abusive or alcoholic or cheats on his wife or in anyway puts a family in a position of strife, danger or poverty . . . it can all be traced back to the poor decisions of the mother, all the wrongs of the father are to be shouldered by the mother, because she is the 'gate keeper' she is the one who chose him . . . .

"[women] will f*cking end this human race if we don't start holding them a-f*cking-countable.".

"there would be a corpoarate police force to instil fear into the population (FDR3139 "in a free society there will be cops people fear")"

Yep, the quote is right there, with the podcast number, go look it up.

"brain scans would apparently be mandatory, without a clear brain scan (showing no deviancy, no criminally and so on) you would be denied all services, you could not get work, rent accommodation or even buy food"

Yep, in Molyneux's ideal DRO model 'free' society insurance companies would require a regular brain scan, checking for early signs of disease, evidence of brain changes known to be caused by abuse, excessive alcohol use, drug use, injury and so on.

And without an 'all-clear' from the insurance company you wouldn't be able to access various services, Molyneux gives the example of abused children tending to disrupt the education of other children being taken out of education on evidence of abuse from a brain scan.

Kronze21

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Re: Ramifications
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2018, 12:58:31 AM »
0
Bro you keep saying that but you've only made claims with no evidence.  There's nothing to refute.  I realize Stef  isntperfect but the way you people act he's like the spawn of Satan.

Making random quotes isn't evidence.

Actually they are both to blame.  Stef wouldn't say different.  The man for being a loser and the women for picking a loser.

Finally some actual evidence!!  Ill listen to it tomorrow.  We'll see if you're full of shit or not.

That's actually not a bad idea.  An insurance company could save a lot of money that way.  It would be a good business decision.  However do we really have the technology for that yet??  Also how does that have anything to do with being free or not?  A private business should be free to do business with whom they choose.  If that means a brain scan as vetting why shouldn't they be allowed to do that??

I don't see how that would be the case.  You don't need insurance.


I can play this game too.  You're an alien from planet stupid who us here to take over the world.  Because of that we should lock you up and do experiments on you. . . . . . . .

Yep, unable to refute anything I've said, like someone desperate not to hear the more unsavoury aspects of their religion or ideology, you end up attacking the character of the person challenging your ideas rather than rebutting the criticism.

Ok, as your response is a typical Molyneux white-knight 'fingers in the ears', I'll outline what have I said . . . .

"people locked into their houses by DRO corporations"

Yep, in Molyneux's 'free' society, DROs would place you under house arrest for failure to comply with their orders.

"people starved to death for not complying with sentences issued by companies with a vested interest"

Yep, in Molyneux's 'free' society, failure to comply with DROs would mean access to all services, from electricity to water, education to healthcare . . . including access to food . . . would be withdrawn, and guess what happens when you are under house arrest with no access to food ?

"women would be 'held to account' for the actions of their husbands 30 years after they married them"

Yep, I'm surprised I need to point this one out, it's standard Molyneux fare . . . Molyneux has made it clear that when a father leaves a family destitute, turns out (even decades after a happy marriage) to be abusive or alcoholic or cheats on his wife or in anyway puts a family in a position of strife, danger or poverty . . . it can all be traced back to the poor decisions of the mother, all the wrongs of the father are to be shouldered by the mother, because she is the 'gate keeper' she is the one who chose him . . . .

"[women] will f*cking end this human race if we don't start holding them a-f*cking-countable.".

"there would be a corpoarate police force to instil fear into the population (FDR3139 "in a free society there will be cops people fear")"

Yep, the quote is right there, with the podcast number, go look it up.

"brain scans would apparently be mandatory, without a clear brain scan (showing no deviancy, no criminally and so on) you would be denied all services, you could not get work, rent accommodation or even buy food"

Yep, in Molyneux's ideal DRO model 'free' society insurance companies would require a regular brain scan, checking for early signs of disease, evidence of brain changes known to be caused by abuse, excessive alcohol use, drug use, injury and so on.

And without an 'all-clear' from the insurance company you wouldn't be able to access various services, Molyneux gives the example of abused children tending to disrupt the education of other children being taken out of education on evidence of abuse from a brain scan.