Author Topic: Supports Trump?  (Read 7483 times)

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Marc Moïni

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Re: Supports Trump?
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2018, 07:35:38 AM »
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In this presentation, primatologist Franz De Waal explains what is meant by "alpha male" and "alpha female" when talking about bands of chimpanzees, or bonobos, or other primates living in small groups.

De Waal says his 1982 book Chimpanzee Politics played a big part in starting the trend of applying the concept of "alpha male" to humans.

As I typically see with Molyneux and his followers, this is an example of:

1) taking a concept that has validity in one context (highest ranked male in a group of baboons or chimpanzees, where the social order is hierarchical and only the "alpha" male can openly mate with females)

2) finding some similarities with another context (humans are primates, and we live in groups too--albeit usually much larger)

3) using the concept as if it applies just the same in this other context (Molyneux claims sexual privilege in human society is the same as in groups of chimps or baboons)

And then Molyneux uses the confusion he creates, to:

4) get his followers angry at some scapegoat group, and he milks this anger to get admiration and money from them.

This is what demagogues do. Hitler comes to mind, but pretty much every politician before or since, has used this tactic.

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Kronze21

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Re: Supports Trump?
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2018, 09:09:23 PM »
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Yeah and beta males have a hard time mating with the opposite sex too.  Any female that has any value at least.


No stef points out a legitimate problem that you don't want to accept so you call it scrape goating
In this presentation, primatologist Franz De Waal explains what is meant by "alpha male" and "alpha female" when talking about bands of chimpanzees, or bonobos, or other primates living in small groups.

De Waal says his 1982 book Chimpanzee Politics played a big part in starting the trend of applying the concept of "alpha male" to humans.

As I typically see with Molyneux and his followers, this is an example of:

1) taking a concept that has validity in one context (highest ranked male in a group of baboons or chimpanzees, where the social order is hierarchical and only the "alpha" male can openly mate with females)

2) finding some similarities with another context (humans are primates, and we live in groups too--albeit usually much larger)

3) using the concept as if it applies just the same in this other context (Molyneux claims sexual privilege in human society is the same as in groups of chimps or baboons)

And then Molyneux uses the confusion he creates, to:

4) get his followers angry at some scapegoat group, and he milks this anger to get admiration and money from them.

This is what demagogues do. Hitler comes to mind, but pretty much every politician before or since, has used this tactic.

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Marc Moïni

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Re: Supports Trump?
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2018, 07:38:11 AM »
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As De Waal explains, "alpha male" in primatology only means being the highest ranked male (or coalition of 2-3 males) in a hierarchical group. It's not a personality type, with some individuals born "alphas' and other "betas", as Molyneux portrays. That's the first mistake I see him and his followers, and you, making.

If human society had "alpha males" the way chimpanzee and baboons groups do, you would see only a few males mating with all the females. Think harem on a massive scale, just a few guys in each town monopolizing all the women by force. Clearly this is not reality.

I'm concerned when I read that you think some people have more value than others. Could it be this type of thinking that makes it difficult for so-called "beta males" to relate to women?
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Kronze21

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Re: Supports Trump?
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2018, 01:53:47 AM »
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Then Da Waal is the one that is mistaken.  The reason they are on top is because of their personality type and most likely their body size as well but you don't have to be the biggest to be alpha.  It only helps.

Its not as extreme as the animinal kingdom but the top 1% of women normally date the top 1% of men, the alphas.  The beta females usually date the beta males.

Some people do have less sexual market value.  That is a fact. 

Some people do bring more value to society that is a fact and others brings crime and violence.  If the gang MS-13 is literally doing these things is it just scrape goating to point this out??  What about pointing out that Nazis tend to want to do harm to Jews.  Is pointing that out just scrape goating??

As De Waal explains, "alpha male" in primatology only means being the highest ranked male (or coalition of 2-3 males) in a hierarchical group. It's not a personality type, with some individuals born "alphas' and other "betas", as Molyneux portrays. That's the first mistake I see him and his followers, and you, making.

If human society had "alpha males" the way chimpanzee and baboons groups do, you would see only a few males mating with all the females. Think harem on a massive scale, just a few guys in each town monopolizing all the women by force. Clearly this is not reality.

I'm concerned when I read that you think some people have more value than others. Could it be this type of thinking that makes it difficult for so-called "beta males" to relate to women?