Author Topic: Author of "Race, IQ, and Jensen" repudiates Molyneux as a "coattail-hanger"  (Read 2901 times)

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Weston Dupree

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[Yes spanking is not good, and since most people were spanked as a child , he can try and appeal to almost everyone.]

Absolutely

When I was little, my mom would hit me and my brother with a belt once and a while. It sucked, but now that I'm 30 it's not like I'm gonna keep dwelling on it. That would be ridiculous.

Though after all the talk about not spanking, Molyneux has actually changed his stance on this. If you watch his interviews with Charles Murray and Linda Godreidson, you see he's adopted the "parenting doesn't matter that much" view that evolutionary psychologists are in to which is described in the book The Nurture Assumption by Judith Rich Harris.

Lupus

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Though after all the talk about not spanking, Molyneux has actually changed his stance on this.

He's certainly loosened his grip on his once absolute stance that any level of physical coercion / abuse used against children is wrong, In FDR 3718 (June 2017) Molyneux says he would rather a child was brought up in a Christian family with spanking, than a child was brought up in a peaceful non-religious family.

There will doubtlessly be some Christians amongst his audience (an audience he's actively pursued) who would have seen this as, if not a reason, then a rationalisation for spanking their children, Molyneux had given them a convienent justification "hey, I might beat my kids, but at least we're not atheists".
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 07:25:25 PM by Lupus »

Marc Moïni

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When I was little, my mom would hit me and my brother with a belt once and a while. It sucked, but now that I'm 30 it's not like I'm gonna keep dwelling on it. That would be ridiculous.

I'm concerned for you. This type of mistreatment is a recipe for Complex PTSD, aka Developmental Trauma, aka Childhood Trauma. And it's very difficult to realize if we're affected, because part of what this does is blind us to the fear we feel (other emotions as well). See my videos if you're curious about how it's been for me, discovering how much I was handicapped, and then seeking effective ways to heal.

Molyneux has misrepresented childhood trauma, the way I see him doing with anything he talks about. I recommend people check out Pia Mellody's work, to get an accurate image of this whole topic. It's important because I think most people are affected to some degree. Not in the way Molyneux says.

A major reason why I've been frustrated with Molyneux's behavior, especially back when he was trying to attract people interested in the ideas of liberty, is that regardless of what side of an issue he argues for, he misrepresents it, and then people who aren't familiar with the topic end up with distorted and misleading notions. Which they might keep for years before re-examining them. I see that as a big obstacle to resolving important issues.
lessons from my journey out of confusion and despair:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEy_JSW_saSvsiG6wFnB8DeYUzT26-bA6

Weston Dupree

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When I was little, my mom would hit me and my brother with a belt once and a while. It sucked, but now that I'm 30 it's not like I'm gonna keep dwelling on it. That would be ridiculous.

I'm concerned for you. This type of mistreatment is a recipe for Complex PTSD, aka Developmental Trauma, aka Childhood Trauma. And it's very difficult to realize if we're affected, because part of what this does is blind us to the fear we feel (other emotions as well). See my videos if you're curious about how it's been for me, discovering how much I was handicapped, and then seeking effective ways to heal.

I'd be open to watching your videos on this when I have time, but for now I'll just disagree with you. As I've brought up before on this site, data seems to show that parenting has a smaller effect on people in adulthood than is commonly believed. The book The Nurture Assumption was the first to really tackle this issue. Other prominent psychologists and authors that have discussed this are Steven Pinker, Robert Trivers, Charles Murray, Linda Gottfredson the authors of Freakonomics, etc.

When Molyneux had Charles Murray on his show, Murray said that spanking doesn't really affect kids into adulthood. If the abuse is severe and you lock a kid in a closet, then of course it will. Robert Trivers pointed out that kids who are too easily shaped by their parents wouldn't survive as easily therefore evolution would select it out.

Anyway, I appreciate your concern about me, but I do not believe I have complex PTSD. It seems way too easy for people to be diagnosed with a psychological disorder and I'm very cautious about doing this.

Marc Moïni

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Ah yes, if you think you're being diagnosed with a psychological disorder, it's understandable to be wary, given how this has been a tactic used to strip people of their autonomy. Such as "Drapetomania" in the US in the 19th century, and "Hysteria" in 20th century Europe. And in the Soviet Union, diagnosing political dissenters with "Philosophical Intoxication". And more recently, I think "ADD" and "ADHD" and other mostly made-up diagnoses such as "Dyslexia" have been used to push compulsory schooling.

You see, this is an example of what I was saying about Molyneux, how his misrepresentations hurt people. Did you hear this from him, the notion that Complex PTSD is a psychological disorder?

I prefer to think of it as an adaptation to having grown up around too much danger, meaning there's nothing medically or psychologically wrong with the person, it's just that they haven't yet had enough opportunity to learn some key emotional skills that will let them complete their emotional development.

This matches what I've read from Pia Mellody and John Bradshaw and Peter Levine, pioneers of research into addiction/codependence and trauma recovery. They are Senior Fellows (Bradshaw passed away in 2016) of The Meadows, in Wickenburg, AZ, which as far as I know has been the top addiction treatment and drug rehab center for many years.
https://www.themeadows.com/about/senior-fellows

I hope this helps reassure you, and you'll be interested in hearing what Pia Mellody says about childhood. There's videos on YouTube with some of her talks.
lessons from my journey out of confusion and despair:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEy_JSW_saSvsiG6wFnB8DeYUzT26-bA6

megi

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Marc, I think you might be missing one disticntion. The people mentioned by Weston are researchers that work on understanding human psychology (from various perspectives). Basically dealing with questions like what it means to be human, why are individuals different, where these differences come from, etc.

People you mention seem to be from helping professions, clinicians. If they ever did any academic research, [which I'm not aware of] it would be on *techniques* how to help/change people longterm. These are mostly concerned with questions like what can be done to rise people from suffering.

Those are quite different areas with different focuses that don't necessarily overlap all that much.

Actually, if clinicians try to explain human psychology, how mind works, it's mostly either:

- as a helping tool for their patients, because people need to see some sense in what they're doing in therapy for it to be helpful,
- as a set of ideas to help explain and organize their helping techniques to themselves,
- or a complete mess that can only seem as a reasonable explanation of how human mind works if you ingore a lot of knowledge gained by the research in psychology (and that's changing all the time, being either refined, or earlier results failing to replicate, or disputed by newer findings).

It doesn't help that there are many therapeutic schools with incompatible models of a human mind, that nevertheless achieve similar therapeutic results. The thing is that you can't validate a model of how mind works by observing the effectiveness of therapeutic interventions based on that model.

I don't know if you've studied psychological research as much as clinical theories of mind and methods, but I'd suggest it. It certainly was helpful to me, to escape various simplified theories of various therapeutic schools, and to understand limitations of the clinicians' explanations much more clearly.

The Observer

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I can safely bet $100 that we're going to see a "Truth about Mollie Tibbetts" video within the next 2 days.   As we found out today, she was murdered by an illegal immigrant.  This will turn into yet another video on why immigrants are bad for America. 

summa logicae

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I can safely bet $100 that we're going to see a "Truth about Mollie Tibbetts" video within the next 2 days.   As we found out today, she was murdered by an illegal immigrant.  This will turn into yet another video on why immigrants are bad for America.

I thought he would do a video on the couple from the U.S. that was killed in a hit-and-run while biking through Tajikistan: https://globalnews.ca/news/4375584/us-couple-killed-by-isis/  Isis claimed responsibility but there's no proof other than their claim. They were both of the view that humanity was basically good and were trying to prove it by biking through that country. It sounded like a juicy story for him to exploit especially given their liberal leanings, but I guess it was too far removed from his current "white genocide" narrative in Europe and South Africa.

The Observer

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I can safely bet $100 that we're going to see a "Truth about Mollie Tibbetts" video within the next 2 days.   As we found out today, she was murdered by an illegal immigrant.  This will turn into yet another video on why immigrants are bad for America.

I thought he would do a video on the couple from the U.S. that was killed in a hit-and-run while biking through Tajikistan: https://globalnews.ca/news/4375584/us-couple-killed-by-isis/  Isis claimed responsibility but there's no proof other than their claim. They were both of the view that humanity was basically good and were trying to prove it by biking through that country. It sounded like a juicy story for him to exploit especially given their liberal leanings, but I guess it was too far removed from his current "white genocide" narrative in Europe and South Africa.

Looks like I was wrong, and I'm actually glad.  I haven't seen him talk about this horrible murder.  It's disgusting that this has become a political topic, but then, is anyone surprised? 

Excultmember90

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He's on the South Africa "save the whites" campaign now, riding the coattails of Lauren Southern in true Molyneux fashion.

The thing I don't get though, this whole South Africa thing doesn't make sense.  Even by their own numbers they're admitting that 74 murders a year take place...in which much of those farm murders are actually blacks and Indians (again, in their own literature)...so I really don't understand how this doom of South Africa because of the farm murders narrative makes any sense.

EDIT: The 74 murders seems not to be from the Farmlands documentary but I've heard it quoted many times since though from misc right wingers. 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 05:29:53 AM by Excultmember90 »

summa logicae

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He's on the South Africa "save the whites" campaign now, riding the coattails of Lauren Southern in true Molyneux fashion.

The thing I don't get though, this whole South Africa thing doesn't make sense.  Even by their own numbers they're admitting that 74 murders a year take place...in which much of those farm murders are actually blacks and Indians (again, in their own literature)...so I really don't understand how this doom of South Africa because of the farm murders narrative makes any sense.

There's a giant contradiction there, as per usual. Apparently it's very bad that migrants enter Europe and the U.S. to take welfare, but it was fine (or at least not that bad) that white migrants entered and looted Africa, and were responsible for apartheid.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 01:21:47 AM by summa logicae »

Weston Dupree

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I can safely bet $100 that we're going to see a "Truth about Mollie Tibbetts" video within the next 2 days.   As we found out today, she was murdered by an illegal immigrant.  This will turn into yet another video on why immigrants are bad for America.

I thought he would do a video on the couple from the U.S. that was killed in a hit-and-run while biking through Tajikistan: https://globalnews.ca/news/4375584/us-couple-killed-by-isis/  Isis claimed responsibility but there's no proof other than their claim. They were both of the view that humanity was basically good and were trying to prove it by biking through that country. It sounded like a juicy story for him to exploit especially given their liberal leanings, but I guess it was too far removed from his current "white genocide" narrative in Europe and South Africa.

Looks like I was wrong, and I'm actually glad.  I haven't seen him talk about this horrible murder.  It's disgusting that this has become a political topic, but then, is anyone surprised?

Would you agree that it's disgusting when the left also does this such as Treyvon Martin, Michael Brown, Heather Heyer, and anytime there's a mass shooting?

summa logicae

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Would you agree that it's disgusting when the left also does this such as Treyvon Martin, Michael Brown, Heather Heyer, and anytime there's a mass shooting?

It's just as wrong. Twisting any story to fit a political narrative is dishonest.

The Observer

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I can safely bet $100 that we're going to see a "Truth about Mollie Tibbetts" video within the next 2 days.   As we found out today, she was murdered by an illegal immigrant.  This will turn into yet another video on why immigrants are bad for America.

I thought he would do a video on the couple from the U.S. that was killed in a hit-and-run while biking through Tajikistan: https://globalnews.ca/news/4375584/us-couple-killed-by-isis/  Isis claimed responsibility but there's no proof other than their claim. They were both of the view that humanity was basically good and were trying to prove it by biking through that country. It sounded like a juicy story for him to exploit especially given their liberal leanings, but I guess it was too far removed from his current "white genocide" narrative in Europe and South Africa.

Looks like I was wrong, and I'm actually glad.  I haven't seen him talk about this horrible murder.  It's disgusting that this has become a political topic, but then, is anyone surprised?

Would you agree that it's disgusting when the left also does this such as Treyvon Martin, Michael Brown, Heather Heyer, and anytime there's a mass shooting?

Yes, if they are just doing it for political reasons or race card reasons.  I don't care what side someone is on.  That is why I don't choose a political side anymore and don't like to call myself either.   

Lupus

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Would you agree that it's disgusting when the left also does this such as Treyvon Martin, Michael Brown, Heather Heyer, and anytime there's a mass shooting?

I'd just echo what everyone else has said, it's pretty low to co-opt these incidents regardless of the cause / or your politics.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 05:18:00 PM by Lupus »