Author Topic: Evolution  (Read 625 times)

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Lupus

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2018, 04:31:03 PM »
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Lupus

Do I need any further qualifiers? If you have anything interesting, out with it!

Then we can discuss, if your example is a proof for a mechanism that makes evolution a viable theory.

I am first trying to find out what kind of 'example' or 'proof' you would be willing to except ?

Faith

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2018, 04:52:22 PM »
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Gadfly
If we took you out on a dinosaur dig in Alberta and you actually dug up some dinosaur bones- would you assume they were fake dinosaur bones planted there by.....hmm mm. ....I don't know.....aliens? 👽👾
I'm going to take a wild guess here and presume you would be okay with prankster aliens.
Sorry, if I sound rude, but I just don't know what type of evidence will ever satisfy you flat-earther types. It seems you all look at scientific evidence and just arrogantly dismiss it. ..

Faith

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2018, 05:03:57 PM »
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Question: what is to be gained by lying about the dinosaurs?
I think the reason they want to believe dinosaur bones are fake is then that will prove that scientists are all fake, everything is a hoax, evolution is a lie....etc.
If dinosaur bones are real, then it makes for a very difficult argument in favour of creation, for those who take the Bible very seriously.

jety

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2018, 10:02:59 AM »
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Lupus

You're repeating the kind of nonsense other darwinists are using. Your question is a response to the kind of stupidity that usually comes from anti-darwinists. You're assuming, withput evidence, that I am about to "shift the goalpost", or something to that effect.

I assume, that you have nothing to say, that is of substance, but feel free to prove me wrong.

summa logicae

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2018, 01:20:09 PM »
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Question: what is to be gained by lying about the dinosaurs?
I think the reason they want to believe dinosaur bones are fake is then that will prove that scientists are all fake, everything is a hoax, evolution is a lie....etc.
If dinosaur bones are real, then it makes for a very difficult argument in favour of creation, for those who take the Bible very seriously.

Most Christians have no problem accepting that dinosaurs existed; and if they don't believe in evolution, they say that dinosaurs were simply created by God. In any case they accept that animals lived in periods far before their own. Denying that dinosaurs existed would make the first recorded discoveries of their bones fabrications, and every paleontologist since then, a liar.

Lupus

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2018, 01:21:10 PM »
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Lupus

You're repeating the kind of nonsense other darwinists are using. Your question is a response to the kind of stupidity that usually comes from anti-darwinists. You're assuming, withput evidence, that I am about to "shift the goalpost", or something to that effect.

I assume, that you have nothing to say, that is of substance, but feel free to prove me wrong.

I am simply attempting to establish what kind of 'example' or 'proof' you would be willing to except ?

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask someone what it is they might consider supporting evidence for a claim.


Faith

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2018, 02:12:31 PM »
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Exactly Summa Logicae.
Thats just what they are trying to do, exactly like the flat Earth nonsense. They are attempting to say that all scientist are liars - which then leads right into their next theory that Global warming is a hoax (probably a hoax invented by democrats😁)
These are trolls, guys.
And no doubt Gadfly and Jety are either one and the same, or are working together.
Don't expect them to be logical.


jety

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2018, 05:35:58 PM »
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Lupus

I already answered your q., but you just keep asking the same q. That's just weird.

Lupus

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2018, 07:33:50 PM »
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Lupus

I already answered your q., but you just keep asking the same q. That's just weird.


Your response (below) doesn't make it clear what 'example' or 'proof' you would be willing to except in answer to your question.

You have said that 'evidence is not good enough' - then what it is you are after, if not evidence ?

You also say it has to be 'genetic' - what is it that needs to be 'genetic' ? We've already established that it's not 'evidence' so then what would this 'it' be that needs to be genetic ?

You also say 'it' (this thing you are looking for that is not evidence) needs to be counterintuitive, but you don't say why ?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

"Just having evidence is not good enough. It has to be genetic, and counter-intuitive, and easy to understand, and an effective exploration of the central questions of evolution . . . "

jety

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2018, 09:19:15 AM »
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Ok Lupus, now we're getting somewhere

As you ay know, communicatin with words is hard.
So I'm going to say the same thing, but with different words.

Just having evidence is not good enough.
Not every kind of evidence makes for a good example, which is what I'm looking for. I don't reject evidence per se, but I want a way to assess its usefullness in a popular level conversation. Therefore, the evidence I'm looking for, has to fullfill the following criteria:

It has to be genetic...
Whatever evidence you may want to use, the genetic backgroung, or in other words the fundemantal mechanism has to be understood well enough, that it can be boiled down to an easy to understand set of statements. I see the efforts in the youtube channel Stated Clearly as tending towards that direction. But, there is a lot more to be done in this area.

Counter-intuitive is not an essential criterion, but it makes it easier to remember.

The central question of evolution is: what is the basic mechanism, or set of mechanisms, responsible for the effect we see in the record of life, past and present.


Hierophant

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2018, 06:44:24 PM »
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If you throw away evolution, then you also have to throw away a good third of science. So just say outright you don't like science and move on from there. There are valid reasons to not like science, and although I am not on that side, I can understand it. But you either agree with the scientific method(s) or you don't. There's no point in debating this or that example, since the issue is epistemic, not scientific: no amount of examples can "prove" or "disprove" science as a whole.

jety

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2018, 02:05:05 PM »
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Throw away?

Of course not! I want to know more! Better examples, remember?

And, which third, by the way? That's a claim, usupported by evidence. Be specific.

Faith

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2018, 03:02:24 PM »
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Jety
If you've already read all the books on the topic, studied examples at museums, etc....and those examples were unable to convince you, what do you expect to learn HERE?!? What could the people who post here possibly do to convince you, when scientists who dedicated their lives to "proving " evolution, can't convince you??????

This is a very bizarre thread....someone repeatedly asking for the impossible,  over and over and......

jety

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2018, 03:42:53 PM »
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Wow. Doing what you just said would require a bit of a superpower, which I obviously don't have.

All's I'm asking of the people here, is to learn to appreciate the power of asking the right question, which is what I'm told philosophy is all about. I search for knowledge. But having the wrong criteria for my search would ensure my failure. So what I'm asking you to do, is to evaluate my thinking on this subject, not to come up with answers necessarily.
It's not the size of your knowledge, it's how you use it.

Faith

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2018, 04:07:39 PM »
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Super powers? Since when are super powers required to read and to think for yourself? People do that all the time , Jety. 
Other than tossing a whole lot of word salad around (kinda like Molyneux tends to do,  BTW) what are you trying to accomplish here?
Perhaps if you dropped the word salad act, and clearly stated what you hoped to find here,  someone could actually answer you
Just a thought.