Author Topic: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded  (Read 10860 times)

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Conrad

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in the Globe and Mail here.

Conrad

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2012, 11:09:01 PM »
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I thought the following parts were interesting:

1
"Ms. Papadopoulos works as clinical director at Mississauga’s Meadowvale Psychological Services. The college reviewed 10 records from her practice and found she had not recommended deFOOing to her clients, Mr. Osborne said.

So if we use a Steffian false dilemma here we could say that this is deeply problematic because

EITHER

she believes in FDR's theories about how nearly all parents are bad or horribly bad and that defooing is often a good thing to do (morally and psychologically) but she then witholds these insights from her patients who she is supposed to help,

OR

she doesn't actually believe in the truth and/or importance of FDR's theories of parents and defooing (even though according to both of them she was actually the originator of those theories or ideas)

Neither option makes her look very good.


2.
“Your statements in support of deFOOing are not supported by current professional literature or consistent with the standards [of the college],” prosecutor Peter Osborne said at Tuesday’s hearing.
So Stef was right after all all those years ago in that article wherein he wrote the following:
Quote
Therapists generally consider that a patient who is terminating a multitude of long-term relationships is acting in an impulsive and self-destructive manner. In particular, breaking off relationships with family members is considered only a last resort, usually reserved for physically abusive parents or spouses. Everything else is supposed to be ‘worked out.’

Of course, quite the opposite is true. Of all the relationships in your life, your relationship with your parents and siblings is by far the most likely to be completely screwed up. Not only that, but you also have absolutely no power to improve these relationships.

which makes it all the stranger that ever since then he seems to have wanted to create the impression  in his public claims that his ideas are not very extreme and not different in terms of content than those of regular therapists
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 11:15:58 PM by Conrad »

Argent

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2012, 11:26:37 PM »
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Wow. The look on her face says it all. And I hadn't thought about this as a landmark, unprecedented case. I'm very glad the college took it seriously. Mostly, I hope Stefan demonstrates the ultimate support by also ceasing to dispense psychological advice. It will be difficult for her to demonstrate remorse to her colleagues if he keeps doing the same old thing that got her into trouble.

It looks like the article was published this evening; I wonder if it will make it into the print edition tomorrow. And I wonder if Stefan will allow it to be discussed on FDR. It's possibly a massive can of worms. If not, it's just one more thing driving a wedge between him and the openness and honesty he espouses. You have to wonder how much longer he can keep the facade up.

Argent

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 11:48:45 PM »
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Mostly, I hope Stefan demonstrates the ultimate support by also ceasing to dispense psychological advice. It will be difficult for her to demonstrate remorse to her colleagues if he keeps doing the same old thing that got her into trouble.
Granted, I know he stopped publicly recommending deFOOing years ago, but every aspect of the site still reeks of deFOOism.

HansKarlsson

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2012, 12:55:04 AM »
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After seeing the picture and reading the first few paragraphs, I had the impression I read a hit piece. Things balanced shortly after. They do mention that defooing is appropriate in cases of abusive family members.

Quote
The college reviewed 10 records from her practice and found she had not recommended deFOOing to her clients, Mr. Osborne said.
This is a huge surprise. It confirms what Christina's ex bf said, that she's too eager to surrender herself to please others. While on one hand she openly supports Stef's idea that defooing from dysfunctional parents is okay while considering most of the parents dysfunctional... on the other hand she doesn't apply it in her work, outside FDR. Huge surprise indeed. Hope she gets a clear picture on how Stef is influencing her and she either breaks loose or she sends him to fix himself.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 12:56:50 AM by HansKarlsson »
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TruthAlwaysTold

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2012, 01:03:07 AM »
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Granted, I know he stopped publicly recommending deFOOing years ago, but every aspect of the site still reeks of deFOOism.

Well he always says "no one should stay in an abusive relationship".

The thing is, he considers almost every 'common' thing parents do to their kids as abuse. (spanking, God belief, etc).

They then claim that they have an 'unconscious' 'false self' that their parents and society has given them and that is the cause of all their problems. The young listeners who lack life experience and are 'seeking' obviously beleive someone older with a 'smart sounding' accent and the bald head which is actually typical for many cult leaders for some reason.

Those who seek get told that they were abused, but it's not their fault which causes them to fall into a downwards spiral of self-pity which causes immobilization to take action in order to resolve problems (what therapy is *supposed* to be for).

Stef promises that he holds the knowledge to unlock this subconscious mind and return to a 'true self' and become 'awake'.  But, it takes time and 'faith in Stef' essentially. All the hallmarks of a cult leader. People on the forum spend years treating him as a god. 'Stef this', 'Stef that' on his site.

What he spends his time doing is attacking the usual suspects - parents, state, and other gods/religions. This is why cults often run off into seclusion. People leave their families, spouses, etc.

I saw this documentary on the 'Heavens Gate' cult where they all commited suicide. Sure enough, the one 'bald headed' leader had all the answers, people left their parents. Men and women were both dressed the same, both with pants and short hair. Same message of world peace with the cult leader holding the 'secret'.

The odd thing is, the cult leaders begin out very similar to Stef, but as years pass, the cult leaders start to lose their own minds and much as their followers. The bar gets raised and raised and raised until death. I remember this one show where at the end of his call in shows he starts whimpering and crying talking about how much he loves his listeners. Maybe it was a couple of months ago.

It's just a good thing this is all online and doesn't attract 'older' members who have real funds to buy land and such. There's an Australian cult that has 60 acres of land and are planning a compound. That guy uses the same trick of Stef and his wife - 'Unconscious mind' trick or 'true self' to make it sound more 'official'.

I will say this though and I'm not trying to over react. I'm just being serious..

Through my research into these cults and their members, I don't think it's a wise idea for members on this forum to show their faces or give their real names. Cult members like to perform sacrifices for their leaders and I just don't think it's a good idea to poke the bees nest. You don't know what some 18 year old teen can do who is totally out of it and views Stef as a god or profit. People say the usual: "I've been listening to your podcasts for 24 hours a day" sort of thing.. over time it brainwashes them and who knows what they're capable of. It's often the members that can be the problem so I'd exercise caution. I'm convinces 100% they are a cult. I have no doubts. They meet all the criteria.

HansKarlsson

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2012, 02:15:50 AM »
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I gave this a second thought. So she decided to plead guilty in order to keep her practice. Well, because of the process her practice will die soon if it isn't already dead. So what did she gain by pleading guilty?

On the other hand, a smart entrepreneur would have told her to go all in, plead not guilty, have her license revoked and after that start an online service as an outcast psychologist. That would have brought her money and fame. Guess no such entrepreneur was around.

Quote
A self-described Internet philosopher, Mr. Molyneux...
Bingo!
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Argent

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2012, 02:30:27 AM »
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It's clear from the podcasts that Christina was never interested in doing them. She is not a showperson like Stefan is. I think she is probably much more comfortable in one-on-one, confidential sessions. Maybe she even prefers not to have Stefan listening, ready to interrupt her at any moment.

If you want to practice traditional one-on-one therapy, and particularly if you want a low patient turnover rate (i.e. ability to build trust relationships with patients), you pretty much need the blessing of the established institutions.

While it may be possible to make a living practicing without a license, it will be an uphill battle. No matter what Christina's political beliefs may be, she doesn't strike me as a trailblazer in this regard. Perhaps if Stefan wasn't so busy undermining her, he could bring the entrepreneurial aspects to the table. That would probably mean giving up his e-fame, though, and letting her be in the forefront professionally. Tough sell.

Argent

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2012, 02:44:44 AM »
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This is getting a tiny bit speculative, but I can imagine the following transpiring between them. Mostly because I heard snippets of it in various podcasts.

"Stef... I don't want to do the Ask A Therapist segment anymore. I'm worried that I'm violating the oath I took with the CPO, and that I'll get in trouble professionally."

"You also took an oath with me when you married me. You vowed to support me, and you knew at the time that I was interested in doing this sort of thing. What is more important to you, your marriage oath or your CPO oath?"

"My marriage oath, of course."

"Then I need you to support me by doing the Ask A Therapist segment. It's not like I'm asking you to give up all your free chore time. Just one hour a week. You don't have to worry about preparing--we do things off-the-cuff at FDR. You won't even know anything about the listeners until 5 minutes before you have to give them advice!"

"Ok, Stef. I do need to learn to be comfortable with public speaking, and practice makes perfect."

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 03:43:26 AM »
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Since we are speculating (a favorite pastime of mine):
I don't think their marriage will survive (although I do not in any way wish this upon them - I notice elsewhere this forum has been accused of trying to break up Stefan's family and - like everyone else here I am sure - I absolutely don't want to do that: I think families are better staying together and working things out - indeed, that's why I'm here).
My reasoning (which predates even my abandonment of FDR) is thus: since the marriage is based, to a smaller or larger extent, on the acceptance of Stefan's dogma, the nitty gritty of home life and bringing up a child will gradually expose and erode this (I speak from experience). Marriages become far harder to keep together when the magic wears off and the novelty of parenthood becomes a difficult routine; when kids rebel - as they mainly do in a healthy environment; when a "successful" man is surrounded by adoring people, some of them attractive women... and so forth. I think if the foundations of a marriage are not solid - if it is based on some deception, sleight of hand, expediency, and so forth - and when there is no strong connection to family roots, i.e. the extended family, the potential to maintain and grow a strong bond is greatly reduced. I'm not saying a split is imminent - it would be a huge hurdle for Stefan to overcome, although I think he has the verbal skills / mental agility (edit: "ego strength" is perhaps a better way of putting it) to reframe it in a manner that salvages or even strengthens his position - but I think five more years would be a stretch. I haven't researched this, but from my limited observations cult leaders very rarely maintain a strong monogamous bond throughout their life.
Just shooting the breeze - I could be completely mistaken.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 03:53:06 AM by Prodigal son »

TruthAlwaysTold

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 05:22:08 AM »
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Yeah I got married around the same time as him I think. My daughter is 1.5yrs and I totally understand what the routine of looking after kids and the marriage changing. Since he is being supported financially by his wife and he's 46, I think he'd end up staying. There are also the cult leaders who wives are very much part of it - especially in religious cults.

Since this is all online, and he's 46, and he's at home all day being supported by his wife, I don't think they'd get divorced. If they did, *she* would have to pay *him* equalization payments because she's the breadwinner of the household.

I also have a speaker system that I listen with and can hear the subtle things. I often hear her snickering in the background like in those audio podcasts he did a couple of weeks ago where he sounded like he was doing it in his car. It's like she's his biggest fan and hangs off every word. Good quality in a wife for her to support her husband. She seems to be very supportive of his endeavours and *personally*, I feel that her psychology is from him as there's no way they would teach that in school or it would have any real purpose in bettering someones life moving forward. Cognitive Behavioral therapy is a 'catch-all' solution that seems to work for a small fraction of people if it's followed directly and used along with medication. You just give them some booklets and fill out some questionnaires for their associations to do research with. That's what a 'technician' does. This could be why she had only 10 files because she's not doing any real counseling/therapy.

So suppose you see a psychiatrist because you are depressed of have ADHD. You will go in for the day to get tested. The Psychiatrist is the doctor that can prescribe you medication. You will only sit with him at the end for 10 minutes max. The rest of the time, you are being given test after test after survey by 'technicians'. This is akin to dental assistants. After you are verified that you have depression/OCD/ADHD and the psychiatrist prescribes you meds, he'll then refer you to therapy/counseling. When you see them, they pretty much take more surveys/questionnaires and then give you the only thing that works in therapy (because sorry guys I think it's a scam). They give you cognitive behavioral therapy. If you go on any OCD forum or ADHD forum they will say that it doesn't help and are usually disappointed with it because it essentially tells you 'think positive' which works for some people, but most will tell you it doesn't. Often people will report going to one or two appointments and not going back. The Psychological associations know that they are a 'fraud' healthcare service and lobby heavy to protect their space. They don't want FDR to tarnish their image and that's the real reason I believe they made an example out of her. Also because this is Canada and regulatory bodies/gov't do whatever they want. The laws here are a joke. It's a kangaroo, banana republic, sh*thole. And Stef lives in a freaking *ghetto*. I would *NEVER* buy a house in his neighbourhood. It's one of the *least* places I'd ever want to live. I don't know how he can take living in that area. I still get a laugh out of him saying he lives in a 'very Christian neighbourhood'. Lol.. wow if you could only see.

I'm just upset that I have to fund her and Stef's lifestyle through money that is STOLEN from me and transferred to her 'junk' profession. Let people see her and pay out of pocket for her services and see how far they get. The whole Fraser TV show 'shrink' stuff..that's now what real counseling/therapy is if you go.

What works much better than therapy, are called 'personal coaches'. Many will tell you that these people *blow away* therapists in their effectiveness. The problem with getting better, is you need to take action. But I understand though, in these modern times when the state limits so many choices in life, it's almost pointless taking action to do anything. This is why so many are on meds and suffering mental illness right now. All doors are closed.

Why? Because I'm getting money stolen from me to support junk state protected professions. So it's a negative feedback loop. Stef is the problem. He doesn't get it. He really *IS* the larger, greater problem.

Anarchist

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2012, 10:22:20 AM »
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I don't think that Stefan or Christina were lying about their principles. I think they both take the idea of marriage being not so unbreakable seriously (and so I don't think vows are taken seriously in that way) and they admire each other and think that true love is only there with that. This is the same sort of shared belief that keeps religious marriages alive.

I had the sense that the podcasts were removed at Christina's request since Stefan respected her autonomy in his mind, though I didn't think she'd plead guilty. Stefan actually thinks that his thinking style is great. He actually didn't want to pressure Christina and thought he was just relaying the obvious truth to her.

To her credit, she takes studies and so on seriously, but she can be misled into conclusions that don't follow from them, especially by reasoning from the biased sample that shows up in her practice and assuming she's empirical. She was the source of Stefan's flawed arguments about a lot of things, such as prostitution, which she wrote a quIte concise argument for on the boards. I think that their misunderstandings of empiricism reinforce each other.

I'm not surprised that she was less pushy with clients because unlike FDR, why would random people be open to that? She likely mistook FDRers preparation by Stefan as declarations of their values and offered support based on that. Also, she has much more of a respect for how things are supposed to be done (authoritatively declaring how things are supposed to be was a common theme for her). One of the things she pointed out in this way was in regard to a religious therapist a listener had trouble with. She pointed out that therapists aren't supposed to push their values onto clients.

Elucidated

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2012, 05:16:36 PM »
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Since we are speculating (a favorite pastime of mine):
I don't think their marriage will survive (although I do not in any way wish this upon them - I notice elsewhere this forum has been accused of trying to break up Stefan's family and - like everyone else here I am sure - I absolutely don't want to do that: I think families are better staying together and working things out - indeed, that's why I'm here).
My reasoning (which predates even my abandonment of FDR) is thus: since the marriage is based, to a smaller or larger extent, on the acceptance of Stefan's dogma, the nitty gritty of home life and bringing up a child will gradually expose and erode this (I speak from experience). Marriages become far harder to keep together when the magic wears off and the novelty of parenthood becomes a difficult routine; when kids rebel - as they mainly do in a healthy environment; when a "successful" man is surrounded by adoring people, some of them attractive women... and so forth. I think if the foundations of a marriage are not solid - if it is based on some deception, sleight of hand, expediency, and so forth - and when there is no strong connection to family roots, i.e. the extended family, the potential to maintain and grow a strong bond is greatly reduced. I'm not saying a split is imminent - it would be a huge hurdle for Stefan to overcome, although I think he has the verbal skills / mental agility (edit: "ego strength" is perhaps a better way of putting it) to reframe it in a manner that salvages or even strengthens his position - but I think five more years would be a stretch. I haven't researched this, but from my limited observations cult leaders very rarely maintain a strong monogamous bond throughout their life.
Just shooting the breeze - I could be completely mistaken.

Your comment about there being no strong connection to family roots made me think, do they have a network of friends? There's little if any mention of friends - does Stefan ever leave the house? ;) It would be natural for Christina to have work friends but what would they make of all this? If they didn't know the details of her husbands business before, they surely would be more wise to it now, it would be only too natural to sneak a peak on his website. My point is, would those work friends of her's be happy to also be friends of his? This leads to two possibilities in my mind, either she is quite isolated and therefore all the more reliant on him and under his influence, or on the other hand she may have strong friendships of her own, entirely separate from him, in which case she would be in a stronger position to make a break. Just some thoughts..


Elucidated

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2012, 05:30:03 PM »
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I don't think that Stefan or Christina were lying about their principles. I think they both take the idea of marriage being not so unbreakable seriously (and so I don't think vows are taken seriously in that way) and they admire each other and think that true love is only there with that. This is the same sort of shared belief that keeps religious marriages alive.


Good point about being like the shared religious belief marriages. To end the marriage would be to 'betray' the cause, and / or acknowledge that all their ideals were wrong. I don't think Stefan would end the marriage under any circumstances as he would never acknowledge he got anything wrong.

I had the sense that the podcasts were removed at Christina's request since Stefan respected her autonomy in his mind, though I didn't think she'd plead guilty.


If she hadn't plead guilty, would the panel of her fellow professionals have had to sit through all those podcasts? if so there might have been a different outcome still.

MutinousMind

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Re: Therapist who told podcast listeners to shun their families reprimanded
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2012, 05:37:38 PM »
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I
Since we are speculating (a favorite pastime of mine):
I don't think their marriage will survive (although I do not in any way wish this upon them - I notice elsewhere this forum has been accused of trying to break up Stefan's family and - like everyone else here I am sure - I absolutely don't want to do that: I think families are better staying together and working things out - indeed, that's why I'm here).
My reasoning (which predates even my abandonment of FDR) is thus: since the marriage is based, to a smaller or larger extent, on the acceptance of Stefan's dogma, the nitty gritty of home life and bringing up a child will gradually expose and erode this (I speak from experience). Marriages become far harder to keep together when the magic wears off and the novelty of parenthood becomes a difficult routine; when kids rebel - as they mainly do in a healthy environment; when a "successful" man is surrounded by adoring people, some of them attractive women... and so forth. I think if the foundations of a marriage are not solid - if it is based on some deception, sleight of hand, expediency, and so forth - and when there is no strong connection to family roots, i.e. the extended family, the potential to maintain and grow a strong bond is greatly reduced. I'm not saying a split is imminent - it would be a huge hurdle for Stefan to overcome, although I think he has the verbal skills / mental agility (edit: "ego strength" is perhaps a better way of putting it) to reframe it in a manner that salvages or even strengthens his position - but I think five more years would be a stretch. I haven't researched this, but from my limited observations cult leaders very rarely maintain a strong monogamous bond throughout their life.
Just shooting the breeze - I could be completely mistaken.

Your comment about there being no strong connection to family roots made me think, do they have a network of friends? There's little if any mention of friends - does Stefan ever leave the house? ;) It would be natural for Christina to have work friends but what would they make of all this? If they didn't know the details of her husbands business before, they surely would be more wise to it now, it would be only too natural to sneak a peak on his website. My point is, would those work friends of her's be happy to also be friends of his? This leads to two possibilities in my mind, either she is quite isolated and therefore all the more reliant on him and under his influence, or on the other hand she may have strong friendships of her own, entirely separate from him, in which case she would be in a stronger position to make a break. Just some thoughts..

I'm starting to get the same vibes as you guys about a possible breakup... and re-watching Stef's youtube video on the "philosophy of marriage and dating" gives me the impression that Stef would really not take divorce well at all. The definitive way in which he says that he has been married to his wife for 10 years and will never divorce is yet another red flag. He seems to want to impose an added level of certainty which is irrational...