But Feminists ARE Socialists with panties!

[ZetaMan]

Every group of maniacs have a few channels to reality left open, and some have very profound ones. Thus the great ease they rope people in with. For without any channel to reality at all, no value is seen in it by the prospective recruit. (I cite my personal and professional experiences as well as hobbyist intrigue into cult psychology)
So, instead of relinquishing all the power to those channels to reality, let's actually examine them with facts and reality tests so we can recapture these truths and use them to the favour of mankind in general and not some cybercult.

Examples of Healthy Objections to Feminism

The Men's Rights Movements - Spearheaded by "A Voice For Men". Not a cult. Marginal collectivity, but as far as social movements go, pretty damn diversified in opinion. I myself am a Men's Rights Activist, and I am accepted by my peers insofar as I am a Men's Rights Activist. The rest of my internal and daily lives are uninhibited, however if I expressed Fascistic tendencies coupled with MRA ideations I would be almost universally rejected. (Example of a man rejected by the MRA: Peter Nolan AKA GlobalMan)

The MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) Movement - Unorganized. Not collective at all. These individuals hold ranging expectations and criticisms of women. The most extreme cases are not Anti-Woman, but simply harbour bitterness towards women and do not trust them enough to take them seriously as people. Objectionably - probably so - but justifiable.

Karen Straughan AKA GirlWritesWhat - Youtube personality. Speaks from a sociological and evolutionary psychology standpoint. Is not a self-hating woman. Does not encourage ANYTHING in her viewers and merely relays facts and her perspective as a woman.

Everyone Else - I read an article here that pissed me off. The title of which was inspired by "Moly" (as I see some refer to him as, and I will from now on for short-hand), and this thread is named after that article. It displayed very bitter sentiments from men. No questions are ever asked why a man might feel the need to say such things, yet when a Feminazi expresses her desire to rid the world of men via eugenics the excuse is that she was abused and is now bitter. To disregard the grievances (no matter how they're expressed) on the basis of ideology is a sin and nothing short of cruelty. I now offer my fellow men, and women with eyes with which to read, to redeem themselves from this offense towards Humanity.

If at all I still have your attention I would strongly recommend you set aside an hour a day to digest samples of the following Youtube channels in this order: ManWomanMyth, Paul Elam, Karen Straughan, bane666au, and Sandman.

Women campaigning today for Feminism are in fact redundant insofar as they're campaigning for women's rights. It makes as much sense to be a Feminist today as it does for the French to revive the revolution against their royalty and aristocracy. There's nobody left to behead. All bases are covered. And I challenge to you find one area in our society where women are exclusively or disproportionately suffering.

-Women can now work in ANY vocation they choose except Catholic Priesthood. But you can't legislate the Catholic Church - the Catholic Church legislates us.
-Women have ample social support to find refuge from abusive domestic situations through private and public funding, which is so viciously campaigned for that men's support organizations never get a slice of the pie.
-Women can now leave their marriage at-will and even claim abuse without evidence in many jurisdictions, granting them complete summary custody of the children.
-Women have imbalanced authority on the matter of sex (details can be discussed) and have been given alarming amount of ground to claim rape, beyond the street-level definition of the word.
-Women in most jurisdictions have the right to extract large sums of money from their husbands, regardless of their role of child-rearer or tax-paying worker.
-Single mothers are, in most jurisdictions (but not my own), are given ample Welfare benefits to support their children and can, at times depending on jurisdiction, collect that in conjunction with child-support. Creating a pseudo-Middle Class inflated by the Welfare State.

When you have won the war then you put away the pitchforks and put out the torches. But in the creation of an edifice to push for women's rights, a monster was born and unto this day refuses to die gracefully.
The result is women being told repeatedly that they're an oppressed minority and due a cash payout and a number of more privileges over their male counterparts. Not all women jump on the opportunity to support other women in ejecting the father from the home, illegitimately cry rape, call for the eugenic removal of men from the species, or get away with domestic abuse under the claim "I am an oppressed minority, thus I can do X" - but I assure you that many DO.

Feminists are Socialists with panties (although I have much respect for that phrase) because they are necessitating the growth of the State by replacing real fathers at home with the Daddy State which will provide without being able to express any grievances or family standards.

As a man who was raised by family, 9 of 10 of whom were women, and someone who has been married and divorced I speak from a place of authority and invite any questions for clarification.
I will, however, not suffer any shaming tactics or bullying and have no problem walking away from this forum if I am not welcome.

"Kill All Men" - Apologized for as "Just a phrase".

[Omega]

I often listen to MGTOW activists like Sandman on youtube.
and I find that some of them are just as crazy as feminists.
like Barbarosa who suggests to follow him into Africa.
Sandman is little less crazy  but anyway they look more like angry traumatized "manginas" who were hurt by society and how turned into dark side, and now they are assembling their own cults like Steffan.

I personally do not find many problems with feminism, because feminists only exploit beta males, and who cares about these stupid work drones?
If you are not beta you only get benefits from feminism because other betas raise your children and feed your women while you only get good part of the deal.

And I challenge to you find one area in our society where women are exclusively or disproportionately suffering.

that would be whole society in fact.
no matter how much progress feminists made our society is still predominantly masculine (capitalistic) while females prefer feminine (socialistic) society.
and socialism is not about welfare only but about eradication of all competition.
Women want safe society where they just  work like ants doing their jobs without any fear of changes.
Women are complaining that when they enter work force men are too competitive and that puts too much stress on them. so feminists want to disallow these men to be competitive and turn everything in Soviet union where you have to do certain amount of work and get certain amount of money but if you do better than that you get nothing more.
 

[ZetaMan]

Omega, I could just as easily myself say that Feminists in my eyes are nothing more than traumatized VAGINAS, hurt by society (due to unreasonably high standards) and have now turned to the dark side and now they are.... oh wait.. hang on. They already did that part. Nvm.

You're right about society as a whole being uncomfortable for women. I was, however, asking for disproportionate suffering. Society as a whole is uncomfortable for men (why do you think most social action movements outside of Feminism is 95% men).
But you're completely right, Omega. Women want the entire world to be remodeled into a womb where they can be eternally nurtured.


I was driving through suburbia to spend time with family. A somewhat regular sight is to see a woman jogging down the wasteland corridors between housing developments. This is a great sight to see. People taking care of themselves. But I'm also aware that a blink of an eye ago in our evolution, if a woman tried that she runs an alarming risk of being eaten by an animal, have her wealth stolen, be captured by a rival tribe, get raped, or many other horrible things. But she's in this womb, in this delusional land where everything is at peace, while men are sent out to die in wars and other endangering jobs to maintain this tranquility. And that's fine by me, just give me a $1 to your $0.64 and we're even.
But you know how if you eat too fast you have trouble telling when you're full?

I know you don't give a shit about the Betas, omega. But some of these MGTOW do. In my estimation, they're better Human Beings than you are. No offence. But if I had a choice of who to save I'm letting your ass drown.

[Omega]

Omega, I could just as easily myself say that Feminists in my eyes are nothing more than traumatized VAGINAS, hurt by society (due to unreasonably high standards) and have now turned to the dark side and now they are.... oh wait.. hang on. They already did that part. Nvm.

I doubt if feminists were ever hurt like men, because I don't know any time in history when men decided to reject their roles. Females were more or less fine, but they just wanted more and got what they wanted.

Society as a whole is uncomfortable for men

maybe it is getting uncomfortable but it is pretty good.
As man i think fighting in war is way better than taking care of baby, because that is super boring.
yes of course war is uncomfortable but still uncomfortable in good way where you can fulfill yourself and get appropriate reward you want.
Lets take recent event in Ukraine: men were leaving their families and going into the hot zone risking to die, because they lack thrill in their life and even if it is uncomfortable it is still better than boring easy life as eat-work-sleep drone.
I can hardly imagine anything more uncomfortable for man than living in the womb.

I know you don't give a shit about the Betas, omega. But some of these MGTOW do. In my estimation, they're better Human Beings than you are. No offence. But if I had a choice of who to save I'm letting your ass drown.

If you are real MGTOW you are alpha man by definition.
And since I am I just do not care what society thinks about me or what they expect me to do.
I agree that I have very little value to society just like all real MGTOWs so your choice is logical.
Of course obedient work drone is way more useful than someone who rejects social roles and duties entirely and lives only for his own enjoyment.
 

[ZetaMan]

I don't have anything to say. Just want to let you know I've read and appreciate your input on the subject.

[Phil]

Everyone Else - I read an article here that pissed me off. The title of which was inspired by "Moly" (as I see some refer to him as, and I will from now on for short-hand), and this thread is named after that article. It displayed very bitter sentiments from men. No questions are ever asked why a man might feel the need to say such things, yet when a Feminazi expresses her desire to rid the world of men via eugenics the excuse is that she was abused and is now bitter. To disregard the grievances (no matter how they're expressed) on the basis of ideology is a sin and nothing short of cruelty. I now offer my fellow men, and women with eyes with which to read, to redeem themselves from this offense towards Humanity.

Hello ZetaMan,

What specifically did you object to in the article?  Can you please provide quotes?

Are you objecting to all women or just feminists?  All feminists or just some feminists?

Do you think that belittling a groups point of view is an effective way to put forward your own point of view or that 2 wrongs make a right?

[ZetaMan]

Do you think that belittling a groups point of view is an effective way to put forward your own point of view or that 2 wrongs make a right?

In order for me to belittle something it first has to have value. And with all due respect, that line about two wrongs making a right is shit brains. What wrong am I doing? QUESTIONING FEMINISM?

I'm not going to bother my sweet mind by picking parts out of something I disagree with entirely. It's the spirit of ignorance in-which the Feminist response and QuestEon's article was written in that I have a problem with. Please also bear in mind that I have a lot of respect for QE in all other concerns.

There's a delusion that has pervaded the minds of men and women alike that in today's world the woman is a victim by default, and in response there is a social movement and mentality (all gradients of which I take issue with) that ultimately serve to widen the divide between the genders and put men at an increasing disadvantage.
If we want to play the game of "which gender is oppressed" or "the most oppressed" (since we all have it hard in this society), then it is indisputably men who are the oppressed gender. That is my statement, and given that it is fact, the onus is on you to pose arguments. I assure you that I'll shoot each one down with ease.

So let's have it.

[Phil]

Do you think that belittling a groups point of view is an effective way to put forward your own point of view or that 2 wrongs make a right?

In order for me to belittle something it first has to have value. And with all due respect, that line about two wrongs making a right is shit brains. What wrong am I doing? QUESTIONING FEMINISM?

I'm not going to bother my sweet mind by picking parts out of something I disagree with entirely. It's the spirit of ignorance in-which the Feminist response and QuestEon's article was written in that I have a problem with. Please also bear in mind that I have a lot of respect for QE in all other concerns.

There's a delusion that has pervaded the minds of men and women alike that in today's world the woman is a victim by default, and in response there is a social movement and mentality (all gradients of which I take issue with) that ultimately serve to widen the divide between the genders and put men at an increasing disadvantage.
If we want to play the game of "which gender is oppressed" or "the most oppressed" (since we all have it hard in this society), then it is indisputably men who are the oppressed gender. That is my statement, and given that it is fact, the onus is on you to pose arguments. I assure you that I'll shoot each one down with ease.

So let's have it.

You have chosen not to answer my first two questions directly. 

It is not clear to me exactly what you are objecting to.  Personally, I have never met an advocate for women's rights who jokes about "killing men."  I have met many people who are quietly and persistently working to correct injustices, regardless of whether they be toward men, women or children.  It is possible to be an advocate for one group without adversely affecting the other; win/lose approaches never work well in the long term.  What exactly do you hope to achieve for men by your approach?  Do you think that telling people that they are ignorant and deluded is going to start a constructive dialogue? 

What has value or not is in the eye of the beholder.  That you see no value in anything does not mean it has no value in someone else's eyes.  The free market is an abstract system that indicates what something is collectively worth at any given time.  Just because one person has no use for something does not mean that it is worthless and one person can never presume to speak for everyone. 

I was curious about your point of view and asked you questions in order to understand it better.  Yet you wrote, "the onus is on you to pose arguments" why should I?  I am not the one who started this thread.

I also note that you have brought up an article that QE wrote, yet you have not bothered to specify exactly which article you are talking about.

[Elucidated]

But you're completely right, Omega. Women want the entire world to be remodeled into a womb where they can be eternally nurtured.

Thanks for clarifying what it is that I want Zetaman. What is it that men want?


Omega said:

As man I think fighting in war is way better than taking care of baby, because that is super boring. yes of course war is uncomfortable but still uncomfortable in good way where you can fulfill yourself and get appropriate reward you want.”

I could take his comment and say that all men want to do is to fight and kill, but I know that's not true and wouldn't presume to make such a sweeping statement as to attribute the traits of some, to half the World's population.

I was driving through suburbia to spend time with family. A somewhat regular sight is to see a woman jogging down the wasteland corridors between housing developments. This is a great sight to see. People taking care of themselves. But I'm also aware that a blink of an eye ago in our evolution, if a woman tried that she runs an alarming risk of being eaten by an animal, have her wealth stolen, be captured by a rival tribe, get raped, or many other horrible things. But she's in this womb, in this delusional land where everything is at peace, while men are sent out to die in wars and other endangering jobs to maintain this tranquility.

I'm not sure what you're saying here but it seems like this 'womb' women want is just not to be eaten, stolen, or raped, and that it's delusional in some way. Is this delusion exclusive to women or would a man out jogging in suburbia be equally deluded?

while men are sent out to die in wars and other endangering jobs to maintain this tranquility.

Have you ever been sent to war Zetaman? I'm guessing not, so does that mean that you are living in delusional womb-land of tranquillity maintained by other men and women endangering their lives? Women make up 20% of the US armed forces by the way.

Very few countries have conscription any more, joining the forces is usually voluntary so they don't 'get sent' without signing up for it, and as Omega's comment testifies, there are many men who would rather kill than nurture. No doubt some women too.

Actually as a women, what I want is to be treated by society as a person first and foremost without gender bias, either positive or negative, coming in to it, and I would like to see the same for men. It is negative attitudes such as yours, that fuel the fire of Radical feminism. As Phil so rightly says:

It is possible to be an advocate for one group without adversely affecting the other; win/lose approaches never work well in the long term

[Omega]

Thanks for clarifying what it is that I want Zetaman. What is it that men want?

men want to be useful and irreplaceable. we want world full of suffering so that we could be white knights who save people from black knights. We want problems we can solve and prove out superiority and domination.
Women used to provide all that to men, to keep them happy. Now, when state took these responsibilities on itself, men are obsolete.
We take another forms of competition and domination and ignore women.

I could take his comment and say that all men want to do is to fight and kill, but I know that's not true and wouldn't presume to make such a sweeping statement as to attribute the traits of some, to half the World's population.

war is not about killing and fighting it is about winning and domination. Modern war is very "feminine" because it lacks any action or heroism.
 and that does not mean all men want that, it means stereotypical man wants that. If you do not want winning and domination you lack masculine traits.

if there is woman which like these things she is masculine. and some women should be regarded as men not women, because they lack femininity and behave like stereotypical men.

[Omega]

You are admitting here that you are making up these definitions of men/women/masculinity/femininity yourself, and trying to fit reality to it.  Your ideas are not based on reality, or the real behavior of men and women, because if something contradicts your flawed definitions, you simply re-categorize it, as if your personal biases matter more than someone's real biology and real behavior.

This is something delusional people do to distort reality.

There is not such thing as real behavior of men and women because everyone is different.
I am sure nobody will be capable to provide any definition of man and woman which fits everyone properly.

What I observe, currently,  more or less match my model of reality.
However I admit it may be just forced social roles or another side may be well hidden. It would be nice to see more females who fit male stereotypes and are focused on domination instead of procreation. I like idea implemented in Sweden to raise children as completely sexually neutral individual and allow them to chose whatever role they want. Being male or female should be matter of choice.

I support feminists on equality of sexes but I don't support this idea to turn world into safe place where government takes credit for everything.

[Elucidated]

 So to summarise your points on this thread #Omega;

• Men want superiority and domination.
• Winning and domination are masculine traits.
• Modern war is very "feminine" because it lacks any action or heroism.
• some women should be regarded as men not women, because they lack femininity and behave like stereotypical men.
• Women want a safe society where they just work like ant.

And your points from another thread; http://fdrliberated.com/forum/index.php?topic=700.0

• Woman live in world of delusions, and don't care about truth.
• They like to build their world as imitation.
• You have to lie to women to get their love.
• They usually just want affirmation.
• Woman reject sources of uncomfortable information.

And your point from your last post:

There is not such thing as real behavior of men and women because everyone is different.

Do you see what you did there?

It would be nice to see more females who fit male stereotypes and are focused on domination instead of procreation.

- no, it would evolutionarily ridiculous

[Omega]

Are you speaking for all men or just yourself (using a royal "we")?  If you (or others) truly believe men want this sort of thing, shouldn't it make sense that all people would be more afraid of men/ other men than women or "feminists"?

and do you claim that it is not like that? men are always portrayed as violent dominant beasts.
every time you see man in any movie it is always active dominant, either he is trying to destroy the world either he is trying to save world, while women are just objects that need to be protected.

I wonder if how do you feel when you are alone and meet meet group of drunk males and drunk females at light which one is more scary, I doubt if you see any danger in females ever, while if we see males it is completely different.
Elucidated also complains that she is afraid of being raped. How many men are afraid to be raped by females?

I completely understand feminists who essentially hate male nature, and they are right.

The reason I don't believe that you are ok with people making their own choices is that you don't seem ok with the choices they're making right now.

and why not? I do not like current situation because I just cant find any female friends, since all females I meet are incompatible. I want female which cloud be my friend in my quest of world domination not some housekeeper or sex doll.
But of course it is irrelevant how kids are being raised today  will not be able to enjoy results anyway, so it is more like scientific curiosity if you raise girl as boy will she become a man.

[Omega]

So to summarise your points on this thread #Omega;

• Men want superiority and domination.
• Winning and domination are masculine traits.
• Modern war is very "feminine" because it lacks any action or heroism.
• some women should be regarded as men not women, because they lack femininity and behave like stereotypical men.
• Women want a safe society where they just work like ant.

And your points from another thread; http://fdrliberated.com/forum/index.php?topic=700.0

• Woman live in world of delusions, and don't care about truth.
• They like to build their world as imitation.
• You have to lie to women to get their love.
• They usually just want affirmation.
• Woman reject sources of uncomfortable information.

And your point from your last post:

There is not such thing as real behavior of men and women because everyone is different.

Do you see what you did there?

No I don't see anything  no contradictions so far.
I never said that these are applicable to everyone.

- no, it would evolutionarily ridiculous

f*ck that evolution, we are not obligated to behave in evolutionary preferable ways.
we are free to chose any path in life.
and if you worship evolution you are in favor of patriarchal society,
They worship evolution as their official god. Primary goal of patriarchy is survival of species ignoring all individual happiness.

If you support feminism you should ignore evolution and put your own happiness on top of everything.

[Elucidated]

Elucidated also complains that she is afraid of being raped.

Whaaat - I never said any such thing!

I do not like current situation because I just cant find any female friends, since all females I meet are incompatible. I want female which cloud be my friend in my quest of world domination not some housekeeper or sex doll.

Is this how you see yourself as an alpha male, Omega?
You are full of contradictions.